AutoCAD Consistently Duplicates Elements of Dynamic Blocks

[dunnamin]

Howdy,

This used to be an occasional problem but is now consistent. When I'm creating a dynamic block it starts misbehaving. AUDIT finds nothing, but if I RECOVER the drawing it's in there are a bunch of errors. After that, many elements are duplicated including hatches.

These are extremely hard to fix. OVERKILL does not kill all the duplicates and even hatches get duplicated. And after deleting the repeated polylines, hatches, etc., I'm left with something that needs fixing because many of the actions are not working (the one the actions worked on got deleted).

I recently upgraded to AutoCAD 2018 from 2015 in the hopes this would now be fixed, but it's the same.

I've attached a block that I have not combined into separate visibility states yet, as I was just creating it. It worked fine, then all of a sudden stopped working correctly. AUDIT found nothing. RECOVER detected over 90 errors. Now OVERKILL won't kill the duplicates. This is a simple floor tile section with two versions for when it looks better to have a gap or a tile in the middle, and has versions under those that would be on separate "profile" layers later (just show the profile of the tiles).

This has costed me, I'd estimate, about two days on the job I'm currently on. All, all, of my wine racks with XY arrays need to constantly be fixed along with all sorts of other things.

Isn't anyone else experiencing this?

Thanks,

   -- Dunn

[beyoungjr]

Hi Dunn,

I wish I could help but ACAD 2018 isn't available to me on my licensed suite as of yet.  You uploaded the 2018 saved file so I would need you to "save as" for the 2013 version to open in my 2017 software.

[dunnamin]

Thanks.

Here is the original after AutoCAD errors messed it up. It was created, then recovered finding ninety something errors, then OVERKILL found 74 overlayed objects. That file ends with the word (DUPED) for duplicated, or that I was duped, I suppose.

Then, the one I just fixed by manually finding overlayed polylines and hatches and deleting them, setting the draw order again, then reassociating all the actions for the actions that were using the deleted objects (because I saved the wrong on of the 2 to 4 overlayed objects). That file does not end in (DUPED).

The next thing, now it's working is to overlay the elements and add the visibility states. I've got a 90% chance that I'll have to fix 70-90 overlayed objects again when it screws up. They usually go bad when editeding, or that's just when I notice them.

   -- Dunn

[dunnamin]

Howdy,

And here's a drawing with the finished block. This one's simple but you can still see how hard it will be to find the overlayed objects after similar ones are actually overlayed in the block. When the multiple duplicates occur, some of them are on no visible layers.

What I've been doing is editing my drawings and when I see they've gone bad, reloading the block from my block library (where I'll save a good one). If I have to edit blocks now, I edit them in a separate drawing and after fixing the usual errors of having duplicates, only then save them to the block library and reload into the drawing. This is because when one goes bad it can cause others to go bad.

I can upload many more blocks that keep failing randomly but consistently!

Thanks,

   -- Dunn

[beyoungjr]

Hi,

Thanks for posting the versions that I can open.

You are truly exploiting the power of Dynamic Blocks and I appreciate the power you are building into them.

Unfortunately I think that there are some issues with the array parameter/action sets but I haven't finished picking them apart in each of the files you have provided.  I also take just a little issue with the multiple layer usages, but that's just preferences on my part.  I try to stick with all of my block entities on layer "0" and workout my visibility states without layer manipulation.  My blocks seem to behave best in that way.

So far I have not found any of your last 3 files to be creating problems with duplicates and drawing errors.  Maybe it was just your first file that I am unable to open until upgrading.  The 4th file you provided is quite good though.  Are you still experiencing issues with duplicates?  I coul dnot produce duplicates and all of the layers remain visible on my end.

[Michael_Sandel]

Hi Geoffrey,

I am experiencing what sounds like similar behaviours after giving AutoCAD 2018 a test run this morning. The behaviour I am finding is related to dynamic blocks that I've created in version 2017. I've opened a file that contains these blocks in 2018 and there's a bug with the blocks now. Basically I have a block with a linear stretch parameter. When I insert a new instance of the block you can see that all the geometry in the block has been duplicated. You can tell because when you stretch the block using the stretch parameter, only one copy of the duplicated geometry stretches, and the other copy stays put.

The copy of the geomtery that stays put is the same as the original geometry (or might actually be the original geometry), but it's not included in the stretch parameter selection set.

When I edit the block it is clear that a simple duplication of every entity in the block has been made, and the only thing that could have done this is the process of opening the block in 2018. Well, that's all I can think of. The blocks were working fine yesterday before 2018 was installed.

Still looking at the mechanism of what's happening. In the meantime, I'm not opening anything in 2018 that I haven't made a backup copy of.

Sincerely,

Michael Sandel
Plan Source

[dunnamin]

Thanks for checking them out and helping, Blaine!

I have two contradicting philosophies on layers in blocks. I also like everything on Layer 0 except for blocks that I consistently explode, and those designed just for exploding. In those cases I will put the entities on the layers they belong in because I get tired of having to return them to the correct layer after exploding. (I cringe at elements with overridden Linetype, Linetype Scale, Lineweight, or Transparency. If I Select All and they're not all set to ByLayer, I went wrong somewhere.)

It's usually when I edit that the blocks get messed up. This block is used in only in one drawing so far as I work on other elevations elsewhere. So there are very few elements in the drawing, yet upon editing this block do simply change the Increment of the Length to 1/16", errors occurred. I changed that and closed the drawing, then reopened it with RECOVER and found tens of errors (70 or 90 something). So, I reloaded the block overwriting the changed one. Later, I had to change it to 1/32" (or remove it) for it to work and got no errors.

It doesn't take long for the errors to occur when editing the block. Sometimes you see something wrong and sometimes not. AUDIT finds nothing. But I have started opening my files almost always with RECOVER because I'm getting so many errors and it's so critical that I deliver valid drawings.

So, yes, this brand new block is also already causing problems.

Thanks,

   -- Dunn

[dunnamin]

Thanks Michael. I was getting the errors in 2015 too which is why I switched to 2018, to try to get rid of it. (I never upgraded because v2016 introduced a bug I couldn't work with, but this was costing me so much time I decided to finally try to upgrade again.)

What you describe is the behavior I'm experiencing too. And when you go into the block to delete the extras, OVERKILL cannot find them all, so some must be deleted manually—and you'll always end up deleting some that the actions work upon. So then you must redo the action selection sets, reassociate hatches, etc.. It's extremely time consuming and aggravating after the 10th or 20th time!

[Michael_Sandel]

I'm having trouble getting my head around what's happening here.

I've made a copy of some blocks in my library and opened then in ACAD2018. They seem to working correctly in both 2017 & 2018, and there's no sign of any duplicate items.

However the project I'm working on currently, which has some dynamic blocks in it, is experiencing the duplicated entities.

The top image is the block when inserted but not stetched. The bottom image is the block after stretching it. Curiously, not all entities have been duplicated.

This second picture is for a sliding door. The top image is the way the block looked yesterday (before installing 2018). The middle image is a new instance of the block inserted today. The 3rd image is the block inserted today and stretched. What is very curious are the window reveals and architraves in the middle and bottom instances. I created this block from an existing dynamic block using the block editor. The original block had the reveals and archtraves and I didn't need them for this project. So I deleted this geometry and saved the block (before installing 2018). What has happened since opening the drawing that contains these blocks today in 2018, is that the original geometry that I deleted has returned. Quite strange.

So far I have only found two blocks in this current project that are not functioning properly. There are other dynamic blocks in this file that haven't been effected. The blocks that aren't working were created (recently in ACAD2017), before installing 2018, but were ok before opening the drawing with 2018. The blocks that haven't been effected are a couple of years old, and were likely created under ACAD 2016, 2015 or older.

I've wblocked one of the blocks from the current project, edited it to delete duplicate objects and check selction sets for the parameters. Reinserted this into the drawing and overridden the previous instances, and the problem hasn't resurfaced.

I will persevere with this project using 2018, but if this problem continues with other projects it will be frustrating.

Sincerely,

Michael Sandel
Plan Source

[dunnamin]

Yes, these are the problems exactly, but it was happening to me in v2015 which is why I upgraded to 2018.

Sometimes it's very frustrating because it puts back stuff you deleted a long time ago, but since it also changes their Visibility State locations there's sometimes a bunch of entities that are not in any Visibility State—this means you must also turn on all states and also analyze grayed out entities in the background. It becomes very difficult. Hatches normally only replicate one, perhaps two extra ones; polylines can be doubled or there could be seven laying on each other.

It's not a new thing though. It's just something that's gotten worse and worse and now is almost unmanageable. Sometimes I give up and stop using blocks in a drawing when I must get it delivered.

   -- Dunn

[beyoungjr]

Hi @Michael_Sandel

I'm playing with some simple dynamic blocks that I have so I hope to figure something out soon.  I'm also going to try to get @john.vellek in on this as well.

Feel free to post you sliding door block as well and hopefully we can arrive at a solution soon.

[john.vellek]

Hi @beyoungjr,

I am paying attention to this thread.  I have found a similar case where the development team examined the block and found that it actually contained the duplicate elements which had to be removed and then everything behaved normally.  I am doing some more research to see if there is an easy way to verify and correct this issue.

[dunnamin]

And then remove them.

And then remove them.

And then remove them.

ad infinitum

(That's why I finally posted about it. Days of time on the last job.)

[Michael_Sandel]

Thanks for looking into this.

Please find attached blocks that were malfunctioning prior to correcting them.

Sincerely,

Michael Sandel
Plan Source

[john.vellek]

Hi @dunnamin,

Can you try working with this file to see if the same thing happens again? I did a cleanup using overkill but I also found that the original file had some Regapps and other items that I was able to remove.

I have been trying to duplicate this with new blocks on my computer and have not yet been able to duplicate the issue.

[dunnamin]

Howdy John,

I got this message but do not see a block attached.

What are Regapps? Registered applications as though I programmed something in them besides standard dynamic block actions (because I didn't)?

Thanks,

   -- Dunn

[kvnbrn]

Hi Dunn,

This is not a new problem. I've been dealing with it every once in a while for some time now. I've even posted on it before. My solution is preventative. for every block I make with a visibility, I make a visibility called "blank", then I turn everything off in that visibility. When the duplication occurs, you can go to the "blank" visibility and delete any object that you see. It's the easiest fix to this problem. The duplication usually occurs over all visibilities, so whatever is in the blank setting is new, and can be safely deleted. 

Note, when you turn everything off, the visibility parameter and the base point don't hide. So take care you don't delete them when you are cleaning your block out.

This doesn't solve the problem, but it sure makes fixing the easy.

[john.vellek]

Hi @dunnamin,

I'm sorry the drawing attachment didn't stick. I am not sure where I put it but will try to find which file I performed this on and redo it.

When I open your Window block I see two Visibility states. Make sure that when you run your overkill that you do it in both. So far, I have been editing the blocks and cannot get them to duplicate any entities.

[debi_olson]

Did you ever get a real solution or reason why this is happening? I've been having this issue as well, in 2016 and now in 2018. It's random and annoying.

I saw the "Blank" visibility idea and will add that to some of my more complex blocks. It seems to me that enough of us have been having this issue for long enough that Autodesk should have it figured out by now. (sorry, venting a bit)

Thanks for any help.

Debi

[kvnbrn]

I'm using 2018 now, and I don't think I've seen this happen since I've upgraded. It's definitely less of a problem lately, so maybe something got fixed. I still maintain the blank setting just in case.