Ben,
I too have been spoiled by watching too much SciFi. I get envious of
fictional characters that have 3D displays holographically projected onto a
screen that hovers invisibly over their desks! I think the size of a screen
would ideally be in the range of 8x10- but a butterfly panel screen could be
smaller than that and still be highly effective. What really needs to happen
is that you have to be able to SEE the info at REAL WORLD sizes for the
viewing window one would typically use when looking at hardcopy. In other
words, I would want the screen to be able to show the area on a "plotted
sheet" that the typical human eye and brain takes into consideration for
primary focus and content absorption (does that make sense?). When I work on
a drawing- and I'd be interested in hearing your opinon on it as well, my
brain takes in about an area of 5 x 8 inches...of course, my "peripheral"
view sees a LOT more than that, but if I need to look outside that primary
area, I need to shift my primary target focus point. So a triptec butterfly
panel that could fold out to 3.5" x 10" would, for me, be ideal. A double
butterfly design (i.e. three by two array of panels) would be really sweet.
I don't think one would need a keyboard to input information in a DWF in
such a device. HOWEVER, it would be really slick to combine it with voice
recognition, or at the very least a way of inputting words from a menu
driven AI glossary of dropdown words. Imagine a device that came with a
standard working vocabulary of say 2000 words (more than most people use in
a day probably!)...and then it was intelligently organized not only
alphabetically, but by most commonly used words as well. You could easily
assemble sentences and phrases to drop into you DWF Composer text fields by
quickly pointing to a few tree branches to find your right words. If it
works for Stephen Hawkings, it should be adaptable to other uses!
Robert
"Ben Kopf" wrote in message
news:40b5fd98_3@newsprd01...
> Interesting concept Robert. I did a quick search for folding displays on
> Google because I swear I saw such a display in one of the many
e-newsletters
> I get daily, but could not find it. There is no reason with current LCD
> technology that such a device can't be built (think about those gigantor
LCD
> screens at trade shows with the overlapping content). The trick would be
to
> make it allow on screen input and to be able to sync them up.
>
> I'm curious, in your eyes, what is the ideal physical size of such a
device
> as compared to the screen real estate you need? Another question would be
> if people can really put up with handwriting markups as presented in DWF
> Composer (text input areas) or do they need some form of
portable/contained
> keyboard with the device?
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Ben
>
> Ben Kopf
> Autodesk Product Design
>
>
> "Robert Grandmaison" wrote in message
> news:40b36396_3@newsprd01...
> > Ben,
> >
> > How about a foldout screen? As I see it the problem with handhelds is
the
> > really limitted screen size. BUT, I like the compactness of them, easily
> put
> > into a Batman Utility Belt, easy to handle and hold while walking
around,
> > etc. .. BUT, then when you have to actually read a document like a DWF
or
> > DWG, you must do a LOT of panning and zooming to see the info you want
to
> > see. But, if someone came out with a buttefly screen that would be split
> > into three panels, you could have almost three times the screen real
> estate.
> > Granted, there would have to be a minial hinge line panel between the
> > screens, but it sure would save someone a LOT of panning/zooming to be
> able
> > to see the info they really wanted. If it was a critical bit of info
they
> > would be able to "recenter" a particular portion of the DWF by hitting a
> > "zoom to center" feature that would recenter whatever was in the
leftmost
> or
> > rightmost area dead center in the middle panel.
> >
> > What do you say, should we go to a venture capitolist with a proposal?
> >
> > Robert Grandmaison
> >
> > "Ben Kopf" wrote in message
> > news:40acc7e8_3@newsprd01...
> > > Now here's a thread I can sink my teeth into...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I've tried dozens of Windows CE (all versions), Pocket PC, Handheld
PC's
> > > (remember the ones with the keyboards?) and Palm OS based handhelds,
and
> a
> > > bevy of the current Tablet PC's during one of our software projects
and
> > came
> > > to some conclusions. Note that I am a strong believer in what you
folks
> > are
> > > saying - given a compelling use case and large market, handheld DWF
> > software
> > > sounds great. But I find the options available to us at this time are
> > > wanting.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. Tablet PC's.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pros:
> > >
> > > - full blown Windows XP OS; allows for desktop to field use without
> > > synchronization and provides more functional software support.
> > >
> > > - more powerful (read faster) than a handheld, especially for
rendering
> > > drawings (in any format); yet most are still underpowered for the
> > authoring
> > > CAD applications, so the desktop/field case isn't as solid.
> > >
> > > - real handwriting technology that works fairly well (the Lonestar
beta
> > I've
> > > worked with is a marked improvement over the Tablet PC OS version 1).
> > >
> > > - larger screen real estate so you see more of the drawing at once.
> > >
> > > - RF pen input is more accurate than a touch screen and functions like
a
> > > mouse (this is a big deal because of the way we designed our markup
> > tools).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cons:
> > >
> > > - high cost (although this is coming down; there are some that will
> enter
> > > the market at around 1K this year).
> > >
> > > - more fragile; unless you want to spend 5K on a ruggedized version,
> harsh
> > > environments are not the friend of the tablet PC.
> > >
> > > - too big; not as portable and convenient.
> > >
> > > - battery life is low; with the exception of the Electrovaya series
> (which
> > I
> > > have tested to 8 hours), most have limited battery life (not a work
> day's
> > > worth for sure).
> > >
> > > - uncertainty in the Tablet PC marketplace (especially for the slate
> > > versions which seem to be moving strictly into vertical markets) may
> keep
> > > costs up and could ultimately spell its demise.
> > >
> > > - you need to cough up more for an outdoor/indoor screen (my NEC slate
> is
> > > unreadable in any sunlight).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. Pocket PC's.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pros:
> > >
> > > - they are highly portable (in the physical sense).
> > >
> > > - relatively cheap (although the gap is narrowing as more power and
> > features
> > > are added to the handhelds, and TPC's prices reduce).
> > >
> > > - synchronization techniques are improving with the introduction of
> > > Bluetooth and other wireless options (802.11); most of the high-end
> Pocket
> > > PC's support both.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cons:
> > >
> > > - battery life is not great in Pocket PC's in my experience. The
Pocket
> > > PC's in the incarnations I tested in the last two years was terrible;
> 3-4
> > > hours maximum life during always on use. Palms are much better due to
> the
> > > not-as-hungry OS and hardware, but are generally less powerful
(meaning
> > less
> > > powerful applications, like say, for CAD applications)
> > >
> > > - screen real estate challenges; as a UI designer I can attest to the
> > > difficulties involved developing a PPC application that has an
> intuitive,
> > > easy to navigate system for zoom/pan/view and markup. Just
"shrinking"
> > DWF
> > > Composer would not be enough. A very elegant method and set of
> functions
> > > would have to be developed to make the UI anything better than
> frustrating
> > > (although I'd love to try).
> > >
> > > - still not as seamless as pulling your "desktop" into the field to
> markup
> > a
> > > drawing, which is feasible with a Tablet PC.
> > > - the screens are now legible outdoors and indoors (even the first
> > HP/Compaq
> > > Ipaq I bought had a good indoor/outdoor screen and they've gotten
> better).
> > >
> > > - touch screens are not as good as RF input pens (see above).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I've left out Palm OS units and the older but still available
handhelds
> > > (with keyboard) because porting to the Palm OS would be daunting for
an
> > > application like DWF Composer, and marking up on a clamshell handheld
is
> > > just awkward. If (and I emphasize "if") Autodesk ever ported DWF
> Composer
> > > to a handheld OS, my guess is we would have to target the Pocket PC
> > platform
> > > (now Windows Mobile Software) first.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 3. Something New.
> > >
> > > - what I continue to believe is that a hybrid size is needed; my NEC
> > tablet
> > > is too big, my Pocket PC devices are too small (just call it the "3
> bears
> > > syndrome"). I've been thinking up a design for hardware with
something
> > > around a 5"x6" (12.7cm x 15.24cm) screen. I dubbed it the "DWF
Tablet",
> > > because if you built it for the sole purpose of our market, you could
> > reduce
> > > the functionality and hardware to specialize in just zoom/pan/view and
> > > markup DWF files. Think of it with Gameboy style controls and a
Tablet
> PC
> > > pen screen (the problem with making a Pocket PC device screen bigger
is
> > that
> > > they are a true touch screen and miscues abound because as the screen
> size
> > > increases, so does the tendency to rest your writing hand on it, fire
> off
> > > input).
> > >
> > > - true 802.11g wireless capabilities (Bluetooth is limited to 30 feet)
> so
> > it
> > > can be connected to a "command post" PC that acts as a server for all
> the
> > > markup drawings (endless possibilities here).
> > >
> > > - hopefully if you made the device functionally specific, reduced the
> > > hardware requirements (no modem, no USB ports, nothing fancy) the unit
> > would
> > > be cheap enough to see a decent ROI. And if it was cheap enough and
you
> > > dropped it, it's not as big a hit on the equipment bottom line.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Very curious to see opinions on my opinions, and about any feedback on
a
> > > "DWF Tablet".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > !Note that this is strictly an investigatory post from me personally
and
> > > does not reflect any ongoing investigation at Autodesk - we are in the
> > > software business, not the hardware business! (I have to say that so
I
> > > don't mislead anyone.)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards and thanks,
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ben Kopf
> > >
> > > Autodesk Product Design
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mark Douglas" wrote in message
> > > news:40abd4ef$1_1@newsprd01...
> > > > Robert is totally right. Composer would be prefect for little things
> > like
> > > > this.
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > > "Robert Grandmaison" wrote in message
> > > > news:40abbe13$1_1@newsprd01...
> > > > > No- we haven't tried because we haven't SEEN anything out there
that
> > > would
> > > > > be most suited to our use:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. We don't want to have our engineers write to dwg formats-
they're
> > not
> > > > CAD
> > > > > operators.
> > > > > 2. We want something SMALL in footprint size that they can take
out
> > in
> > > a
> > > > > handheld device that won't require a lot of hardware overhead to
> make
> > it
> > > > run
> > > > > DWF would fit this bill.
> > > > > 3. We want something that has some useablity when they return to
the
> > > > office
> > > > > with their field notes in the marked up DWF. Composer suits this
> need
> > > > > perfectly. CAD operators could then overlay with the Markup manger
> the
> > > > field
> > > > > notes taken while out on site, and make revisions as necessary.
> > > > >
> > > > > No other sofware gave us all of the above. DWF Composer would.
> > > > >
> > > > > Robert Grandmaison
> > > > >
> > > > > "Doug Look, Autodesk" wrote in message
> > > > > news:1510146.1084762131577.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum1...
> > > > > > Robert,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OK. Thanks for the heads up on the Tablet PC response. We've
> heard
> > > > this
> > > > > request from a "hand" ful of customers. You're saying that it
would
> > be
> > > > > great if Autodesk ported applications like DWF Composer to the
> > handheld
> > > > > platform? Have you been able to deploy other solutions to the
> > handheld
> > > > > platform in your office?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>