cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Survey Database Improvements

Survey Database Improvements

Currently, processing survey data in C3D is a pain, especially when having to edit codes to get figures to be created correctly. Here are a few ways to greatly enhance the workflow and save time when working with a survey database.

 

1. When a point is edited and the dialog for Process the linework comes up there is no indication that it will process all import events. It would be great to be able to have the option to process the linework for just the import event the point was created from or the entire database (the current setting). 

 

2. If an auto-generated figure is created and then manually edited, a re-process of the linework will create a second figure on top of the previously created one. There needs to be either an option to delete the originally created, but edited, figure or apply the changes to the newly created figure. For example, our surveyors sometimes use the offset codes for a curb to generate the EOT and BOC if the shot is in the flow-line. This creates an auto-generated figure for the EOT, but is still on the curb layer and uses the same figure style for the curb. If the auto-generated figure is edited, such as changing the layer and style then it works fine until the linework is processed again. This leaves the edited figure in the database and drawing, but also creates a second auto-generated figure on top of the previous one.

 

This could possibly be fixed by just not processing points that weren't edited. Why process all points (or just an import event) if a single point was changed? I know the auto-generated flag is turned off once a figure is edited, but why not have a second flag that says auto-generated, but edited? That way the settings for the edited figure can be applied to the auto-generated one as soon as it's processed. 

 

3. Fix the slow speed of scrolling through points in the Toolspace>Survey>Survey Points dialog. There are usually hundreds, if not thousands, of points and just scrolling to edit a point is a huge waste of time.

 

4. Fix the survey query dialog box side-bar when it's not docked. There's a huge gap between the bar and the actual dialog box. This has been going on since the introduction of the survey query feature and still hasn't been fixed.

 

5. Allow the use of a survey query to create a Survey Point Group or at least mimic the drawing specific point group creation dialog. The only way to create a Survey Point Group is to manually scroll through every point and select a check box for each point. Due to this idiotic behavior the Survey Point Group feature is useless.

 

6. There needs to be some way to inform the user that when trying to delete a point that's in a network from the Database>Survey Points list that it cannot be deleted from that list. If a point is in a network and you try to delete it from the master point list it just doesn't happen. There's no dialog, warning, or anything informing the user of why it didn't delete. Even Autodesk support had trouble figuring out why some points couldn't be deleted while others could. 

 

7. Figure groups are useless without a way to use a query or wildcards. Similar to the Survey Point Group problem, the only way to create one is to just scroll through checking every single figure to add to the figure group. Either integrate the survey query function into this or create a new way to add figures to a figure group. 

 

8. Figure out a way to stop figures and points from losing their link from the drawing to the database. There have been many times, including twice just today, where processing linework ends up adding figures on top of existing ones. You have to right-click Figures, select Remove from drawing, then in the drawing use QSELECT to select all Survey Figures, delete them, then right-click Figures and select Insert into drawing. When points lose their link, the same method has to be used to get them back into the drawing, but any label rotations or point rotations have to be done over. This is a huge time waster.

 

9. When a figure is created from an object, give the options to delete the original object. It's annoying and a waste of time having to use the selection cycling to select the original object to delete it. 

 

10. When using the OffsetFeature command (which is labeled as Stepped Offset, another annoying issue) on a survey figure it creates a feature line. Either give the option to create a survey figure or a feature line or just create the same type of object. In order to add a figure to the database from a stepped offset, you have to create a figure from the offset object then delete the orignal object again. This is very unnecessary and slows down productivity. 

 

11. Make the figure and point properties windows modeless. Not being able to pan/zoom around while looking at the properties of a figure or a point really slows down productivity. Either add those properties to the regular AutoCAD properties panel or convert the existing dialogs to be modeless. 

 

Autodesk needs to actually work on the surveying side of C3D. Nothing has really been done in 10 years with it except for adding Survey Queries. 

29 Comments
gcolbertnwbeinc
Explorer

When importing a querry from file all the operators switch to the the default "contains" even though the operators are set with "starts with" in the original file.

Anonymous
Not applicable

I appreciate everyone's hard work in collaborating on these issues. It's a much more difficult topic than it seems on the surface. I also appreciate where Autodesk now finds itself in this process. I see some value in their decision making - to eliminate some LDD features as well as the addition of some new features that interface nicely with the 25+ year legacy of features. Companies have designed their workflows around those architectures - and we still find ourselves with the age-old argument of how to manage survey point data. So we leave it unsettled as to whether it is an external database. a drawing, or a survey database. To complicate matters, recent hand held devices have started thinking for themselves and communicating with each other. Feet doesn't necessarily mean US survey feet to two computers inadvertently talking to each other. We work in unitless units out of fear. Grid coordinates and elevations relative to some theoretical mathematical datum realization can control the resulting Lat/longs to some other theoretical realization and vice-versa. I remember a time when a "database" maintained P,N,E and anything else wasn't very practical. Now, there's ellipsoids and their heights, and epochs of different geodetic systems with the ability to make your own low distortion grid coordinate systems.

 

With that said, I read about half of these suggestions and I get excited. The other half I'm in fear of what it will do to the legacy of our own systems.  To me, that says "great job Autodesk."

 

If you want to use drawing points to update the survey database, you can open that drawing and the point database and import points from the drawing as an import event. I'm in that habit. If a control loop or network is "FINAL," and I add control to it or collect more information from it, I follow the hierarchy of control points. Unless I'm adjusting an existing network, I make sure the drawing location results from a processed network, and import the resulting drawing location as control for a new network.  But I need to be able to retrace all the dependencies and make sure they make sense.

 

~Mike

 

 

Cadguru42
Advisor

@peterfunkautodesk stated almost 7 years ago that this Idea was accepted. What's the status of implementing these Ideas? Perhaps @TimYarris knows?

TimYarris
Autodesk

Hi @Cadguru42 . We haven't had the opportunity to do any work on the survey database in quite some time. Once we do, we'll evaluate related ideas.

jolinda1
Explorer

where is Auto Desk on implementing the ideas that are causing so many hiccups in drafting survey data. is there a schedule of when it might be worked? 

TimYarris
Autodesk

@jolinda1 , unfortunately we are not working on survey database enhancements at this time. When we get to a point where we're able to put resources back on the Survey tools, we'll review the related ideas.

CodeDing
Advisor

😅This is wild. Autodesk has been soooo focused on cloud software to help with BIM objects and integration with GIS (ESRI) that they seem to have lost sight of where all that data comes from... The guys on the ground. The people that go out and collect the data.

 

And no, I'm not referring to mass data collection that happens from satellite data or lidar, etc... This software isn't about mass collection management in those categories. Otherwise they'd be competing with ArcGIS software directly, which they're not... We're talking about Civil 3D, which your surveyors and drafters are utilizing for local/municipal projects. So when you give us software that requires workarounds and incomplete workflows, then it's inevitable that data input is going to be mishandled.

 

So inevitably we get squat. Look at the improvement list highlights from the last few years (I highlighted Survey Related Items in Bold/Red😞

 

---- 2025 ----
New in Corridor Workflows
New in Dynamo for Civil 3D
New in Profile Views
New in Project Explorer
New in Rail Workflows
New in Surface Workflows
New in Survey Database Workflows (now connects to Autodesk Construction Cloud...)
Miscellaneous Enhancements
API Enhancements
.NET 8 Support

--- 2024 ----
New in ArcGIS Workflows
New in Collaboration for Civil 3D
New in Corridor Workflows
New in Dynamo for Civil 3D
New in Grading Optimization
New in Gravity Networks
New in Pressure Networks
New in Project Explorer
New in Rail Workflows
New in Subassembly Workflows
New in Surface Workflows
Autodesk Assistant
Miscellaneous Enhancements
API Enhancements

---- 2023 ----
New in Collaboration for Civil 3D
New in Corridor Workflows
New in Dynamo for Civil 3D
New in Labeling
New in Plan Production
New in Pressure Networks
New in Profile Views
New in Project Explorer and Grading Optimization
New in Rail Workflows
New in Subassembly Composer
Performance Enhancements
API Enhancements

---- 2022 ----
New in Alignment Workflows
New in ArcGIS Workflows
New in Collaboration for Civil 3D
New in Corridor Workflows
New in Dynamo for Civil 3D
New in Pressure Networks
New in Rail Workflows
New Installation Experience
New to AEC Collection and Enterprise Customers
Performance Enhancements
API Enhancements
User Profiles
PurgeAECData Command

---- 2021 ----
Collaboration and Data Exchange Updates (C3D <--> Infraworks, ArcGIS, LandXML Exports, BIM 360)
Design Efficiency Updates (Pressure Networks, Gravity Networks, Rail)
Production Efficiency Updates (Reference Templates, Data Shortcuts)
Other Updates (Dynamo, Added Oregon Coord Sys, Corridors, Reports, Design Standards)

---- 2020 ----
Collaboration and Data Exchange Updates (data Exports, Rail, BIM 360, LandXML import/export)
Design Efficiency Updates (Gravity Networks, Storm and Sanitary, Alignments, Design Standards, Rail, Transparent Commands)
Production Efficiency Updates (Dynamo, Reference Templates, Property Sets, Data Shortcuts, Profile Views)
Other Updates (Dark Color Scheme, Survey Database updated from Microsoft SQL Server Compact (SQL CE) format to SQLite**, Project Templates)
**This may have been an "Upgrade", but it required a download of a converter tool to convert all previous databases...

---- 2019 ----
Collaboration and Data Exchange Updates (Corridors, Alignments, IFC)
Design Efficiency Updates (Profiles, Subassembly Composer, Corridors, Pipe networks, Rail, Pressure Network)
Production Efficiency Updates (Batch save utility, Section views, Template options, Labels)
Other Updates ()

---- 2018 ----
Collaboration and Data Exchange Updates (3ds Max, Infraworks)
Design Efficiency Updates (Feature Lines, Profiles, Alignments, Corridors)
Production Efficiency Updates (Section Views, Plan/Profile sheets)
Integration of the Autodesk AutoCAD Civil 3D 2017 v1 Enhancements:
- Add Property Set Data to Labels
- Analyze Gravity Network
- Swap Pressure Network Parts
- Traverse Editor
- Traverse Adjustment

---- 2017 ----
- Corridors
- Data Shortcuts
- External Style Management
- Object and Data Shortcut Subfolders
- Pressure Network Content
- Roundabouts
- Spiral Support
- Autodesk Vault
- Labels
- Feature Lines
- Property Sets
- Reports
- Transparent Commands
- Survey (file conversions & edits)
- Cross Sections
- Surfaces

 

 

Some Notable Highlights of Updates:

- Alignments (4 of 9 years)

- ArcGIS (3 of 8 years) (since 2018)

- Corridors (8 of 9 years)

- Dynamo (6 of 9 years)

- Pipe Networks, Pressure & Gravity (8 of 9 years)

- Profiles (5 of 9 years)

- Surfaces (3 of 9 years)

- Survey (4 of 9 years)**
** If you can even call those updates, File Conversions? Different databases? I'll give you ACC Connection and Traverse editor, so this should be 2 years...

- Rail (7 of 9 years)

 

Tell me you don't want to improve Survey without telling me you don't want to improve Survey..

// End of venting

ceethreedee.com
Collaborator

@CodeDing 

Link to 5 most wanted ideas for civil 3d survey? Curious what you would want to see improved first if you had the chance?

CodeDing
Advisor

@ceethreedee.com ,

 

1. Work better with "Smart Data". CSVs are cool and all, but they're dumb. Yeah C3D accepts LandXML files, but nobody exports them and even when they do the program exporting it usually provides a bare minimum export, not using the capabilities of the LandXML file spec to its fullest (and even if they did, importers usually don't know how to read them to their fullest). So let us use more Smart Data file types (Trimble job files, Leica dbx files, Topcon TPS/TDS files, Carlson CRD/RW5 files).


2. Reports. Now that we can manage smart data, let's get our use out of it. We need reports of all of this information. Create PDFs, tables, spreadsheets, visuals!


3. Better managing of Geodetic info & reference systems. Take one look at Trimble Business Center; enough said. I am very reluctant to transform ANY survey data in C3D.. But I'm absolutely FEARLESS to approach it with TBC (...then I have to re-export it and import into C3D).


4. GNSS equipment, data, and vector management. Currently there's ways to manage Optical equipment & Optical surveys in C3D, so why hasn't GPS been introduced? Let's get with the times


5. Surfaces. I recently submitted an idea for TIN surfaces >>Here<<. But TIN surfaces could be very much improved for the C3D community.

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Submit Idea