Xrefs attached as overlay, is limiting nesting depth an option?

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I'm a newish user to Civil 3D, migrating from a decade of Microstation and InRoads use. I'm on my second large subdivision with Civil 3D. I've been finding a lot of positives for Civ3D and some nagging issues as well.

The issue is with data from xref files being loaded and saved even when I am not using that data. The nesting level for xrefs is too deep and I'd like to limit the depth of information loaded.

When I have a simple site plan, lacking any 3D or data elements, loading and saving takes a VERY long time. The file is 2mb in size and has 3 design files with 3D information referenced. The design files are attached as overlay. I use data shortcuts for all of my design data. In this siteplan I only have roadway centerline alignments referenced. I have no pipe networks or surfaces referenced.

When I hit save in the site plan I get a constant fluttering of "reading points from file" and similar messages in the bottom right corner of the window where saving-loading progress is shown. My problem with this is that there are no points or surfaces in the file, so why is it doing this?? And can I limit how far Civ3D looks into each file I Xref? I read on a forum that Civ3D reads the surfaces and points in each xref and in each xref of xref. I'm specifically using data shortcuts for my data to be particular where I want the data used, so why is this nesting of xrefs necessary?

Microstation has an option to limit the depth of nesting per xref(attachment). You can have it only reference what is directly in the file you're referencing. Or you can have it go one level or two levels deeper to show the xref of the xref. So why can't I limit this nesting depth in Civ3D? Or can I? 

Thanks,

Matt

[Joe-Bouza]

I do not know about depth but if you nest you can unload what ever isnt needed in that spectific file.

I avoid nesting xrefs as "attached" at all cost. only in the most controled situation will use that opiton. I always use "overlay".

Some like to make a base file and attach everything under the sun as attached so you on load the base file. I prefer to build with overlay as I go.

I also find if I add a data reference to an xref files things get sluggish

[Anonymous]

Hi Joe,

All of my attachments are as Overlay. I never use Attachment as the method of attaching an xref. Also, there are certain files that need to stay attached. I can't detach and reattach each time with any efficiency. I however, "Unload" the xrefs when not in use which theoretically should stop any uploading or searching within those files.

Nesting is a term used for seeking information from attached files. "No nesting" does not seek information from anything other than the initial xref. Nesting at a single level will look at the xrefs of the xrefs and so on. Basically it's a Parent-child relationship. No nesting looks at the parent only. Nesting looks at the first level of children.

My issue is that Civ 3D doesn't appear to let you control this level of nesting so it looks as deep as the nested files go.

Cheers.

[Joe-Bouza]

Hi Matt

confusion in nomenclature. I havent seen the inside of microstation in 20 years but nesting in autocad means the files  "attached", not overlay.

I think what you may be looking for is a map query. You define your data source and can pull in to your current file by filtering into your nest of data. unfortunately this only works on native acad data no AEC Objects..

If your files are overlaid then refing the base should not bring anything into the new drawing and I agree if the files are unloaded they shoud not and according to acad are not read.

Civil3d best pratices suggest the data reference for civil3d object to the host file. Xrefs in the best of circumstances would only have native acad objects. then you dref in the surfaces alignments pipes , etc... In a perfect word that would be great, but we all organize the way we do. I cannot give you a white paper or knowledge base article but it would be hard to prove to me that xrefing civi3d object doesnt kill performannce... And the worst is say you have a pipe network in file A and you xref file A into File B and then data ref the pipe into file B... lights out

[Anonymous]

Hi Joe,

I figured that I wouldn't have the correct terms for Civ3D yet and some terms overlap from MicroStation that don't mean the same thing. Hmm. Civ3D and ACAD seem to have many terms used for attachments. An attachment can either be Attached or Overlay. I think I should just call it a File Reference since that's what the toolbox on Civ3D calls it.

So by that definition, my File References are all Overlay.

I fixed the slow load-save issue by detaching all big File References, but still doesn't answer whether I can limit how deep Civ3D looks into each File Ref. I guess I'm glad to see I have an option to make things work better.

I'm in File B, with File A overlay.  File B is a small dumb-line siteplan file with no data. File A is large and has lots of data since it's the design file. File B runs slow because File A is overlay and has lots of data to refresh and search for. I think I just don't like that data from File A needs to be loaded and refreshed if I'm in File B.

I guess it's lesson learned, don't File Reference big files for longer than needed.

Thanks for working through this with me Joe.

Cheers, 

Matt

[jeff_rivers]

You can just say "XREF" in place of 'File Reference', and we'll know what you're talking about.  

As to your question about nesting, or "how deep does AutoCAD look through the XREF's?" it doesn't.  Do this test.  Create three drawings, A, B, and C.  In drawing B, attach drawing C as an XREF, and save drawing B.

In drawing A, attach drawing B as an xref.  So C is XREF'd into B, and B is XREF'd into A. 

Look in the XREF Manager, and in drawing A you won't see an entry for drawing C.  You'll only see drawing B.  

When you XREF'd drawing B into drawing A, it didn't bring drawing C along with it, drawing A will not search for entities in drawing C.