Surface elevations for cogo points

[garyZ8EE3]

I want to be able to display both Point & Surface elevation for the same item.

Example: My Gate Valve point elevations are taken from the top of the nut, but I also need to display the surface elevation for the same valve. At first, I manually entered surface elevations based on surrounding points, then I created a Point Label expression that adds 1-2.5ft to the point elevation, but both methods are basically guessing. I recently discovered that Surface Label Styles has an expression for surface elevation (img1), I created one, but it does not show up on the Point Label Styles Properties list (img2). Is there a way to achieve this? So far, this forum has solved 100% of all the questions I have asked, lets' keep the streak going.

Thank you

[cwr-pae · Accepted solution]

1. If you have a cogopoint with the top of valve elevation, you can add a reference text component to the spot elevation label to read the elevation of a cogpoint. You do have to the appropriate cogopoint for each spot elevation tag.

2. Create a UDP for the depth or elevation of the valve nut, set the cogopoint at the surface and use an expression to calculate the elevation of the nut from the cogopoints elevation or just read the nut elevation. Both require manually entering the depth or elevation.

3. You could use a pipe network structure with its 'rim' (or sump) manually set to the top of the valve and use a structure label to read both the rim (or sump) and the surface elevations.

4. Create a 2nd surface of the valve cogopoints, add a reference text component for a surface elevation to the spot elevation label style. When inserting the label you target the second surface to read the valve elevation. You can copy this label from point to point and have it read both surface. (this is the way I would go I think)

5. There are probably at least 3 more ways I didn't think of.

[MMcCall402]

You could make a Note label style with two reference test components, one for the point elevation and one for the surface elevation.

As far as I know with version 2015, point labels don't have reference text components available.

[garyZ8EE3]

Sorry for the delay in responding to your solution, but I've been trying to figure out how to use the reference text, but having no luck.

Thanks

[cwr-pae]

Create a new Surface Spot Elevation label style. Call it "surface & point" for now.

the default Component is surface elevation you will use as the first component.

In the Label Composer layout tab, pick arrow in the button with the A to create new component.

In the drop down pick "Reference text", in the popup pick the type (in this example use "Cogo point")

In the Contents of the new reference text insert "Point Elevation". Format it to appear below the surface elevation component.

When you add this label to a surface you will be asked to choose the reference surface point, pick your valve point. You will see both elevations. If you look at the properties palette you will see at the top a place to change the point referenced. Each label has to be targeted to a point when inserted or retargeted if copied (copies retain the reference of the original). You will need to add formatting to indicate what is being shown etc. once you get it working.

The process for using 2 surfaces is the same except pick surface as the reference type. When copied the spot elevation will continue using the original reference surface, which is why I prefer a 2 surface approach when possible.

[garyZ8EE3]

Thank you for this method of showing surface elev. along with reference text and I already see a use for this in certain situations. However, I was looking for something different (see attached). Here is what I am looking for, when I receive data from the surveyor, I get a point number(I do not display in label), description, northing, easting & point elevation(which is usually taken from top of pipe or top of nut(Gate Valves). The only thing I am missing is surface elevation. Unfortunately, the point label style composer doesn't have a reference text to add(only text, line & block) and point label expressions do not have a surface elevation option. Of course, using your method, I can retrieve the surface elevation at that specific point, but I would have to manually add the elevation to my point label. What I am after is a method that would automatically add the surface elevation to my point labels. This may not be possible and I will just have to continue to add the surface elevation manually.

Thank you

[MMcCall402]

<Thinking out loud>     

I wonder if the imported Z value of the point could be handled as a User-defined Property of the point rather than its Z value.  Once the points were imported they could be moved to the surface for their Z values.  Then the points would have both Z values available for labeling.

[MMcCall402]

The point's imported Z value as a UDP allows it to be used in an expression to derive things the point's depth below the surface.

I now see that CWR already suggested using the point Z value as a UDP.   ... I'm a little slow some days .. most days.

[garyZ8EE3]

I have attached a different image to give a better example of what I am asking. As you can see for the Gate Valve, I have a Top of Nut & Elev. value. In the Text Component Editor, the top of nut value uses an expression (Top of Nut) which in this case is the Point Elevation(Z value)-2.5. The Elev. value is the point elevation from survey data(which originally was taken from top of fitting, but I changed to show Elevations from Surface, because I wanted accurate surface elevations). As far as I know(which isn't much), there is only one point elevation in the Properties drop down menu in Text Editor. Which is why I created a (Top of Nut) expression to calculate the other Top of Nut value. For example, typically we install our pipes at a minimum 3' below surface elev., and since for fittings, the Point Elevation is taken from the fitting and not the surface, I can create an expression that adds 3' to its value to give me an estimated surface elevation, which may be close, but not actual. Unfortunately, there are times in the same project that a pipe might have to be 6' below surface because of ex. utilities, that now makes my expression off at least 3'. So now, I have to select that particular label and manually edit the label text to show the correct depth. You guys have come up with some great ideas, all I can use for other situations, but maybe I am asking for something that can't be done in Civil 3d as of yet. I may have to go to Suggestion Forum to suggest that they add a Surface Elevation option to the Text Component Editor Properties drop down menu. In the meantime, I am still holding out hope that one of you experts can solve this for me. I truly appreciate the help this forum has given me, I have learned a lot this 1st year of using Civil 3D and I am very grateful for your help.

[copper.chadwick]

@garyZ8EE3 ,

Great post, I see @MMcCall402 and @cwr-pae came up with some very useful suggestions one of which was creating UDP (User Defined Properties) to help you in this. I have to agree with them, out of the box Civil 3D doesn't do this, other than the UDP functionality. I suggest that you suppose this in the Civil 3D Ideas Portal. Please hit the Accept as Solution button if a post fully solves the issue or answers the question.​ Thank you for your participation, your accepting a solution adds value to the post for the community as a whole, and helps other members find answers to their issues.

[garyZ8EE3]

It's been a few months, but I have finally had some spare time to play around with your suggestion and it works. If I could figure out how to tweak a couple of things, it would be perfect for what I want to do. On the attached image I have two labels. The top label is the Spot Elevation label that references the Cogo Point beneath it. My problem is that I cannot figure out how to display the Spot Elevation text (Elev.=148.43) beneath the referenced Cogo Point text (Top of Pipe=144.19), as it is shown on the Cogo Point label and have all the text left justified.

Thank you

[TerryDotson]

If you were to consider add-ons, DotSoft's C3DTools contains a Point Difference tool that can calculate the difference between CogoPoint elevations in a point group and a surface.  In a recent enhancement, those vertical difference and elevation values can instantly be added back to the existing CogoPoints as Point UDP, allowing you to add the values to the label style, or fields in a point table.

[cwr-pae]

Dragged labels stack themselves in the order the components are created. So recreate the label creating the component you want on top when dragged first etc. Use multiple components for surface and point data if that's what you need. I would try to avoid multiple components for reference text as each component has to be targeted. Components with a carriage return (<ENTER>) will wrap to a new line of text. Not sure how much you know about label style creation so I may have pointed out some basics you know. Keep after it and eventually you find the eureka moment that gets you what you want. 🙂