any way to smooth out my grades to be more rounded, as opposed to sharp angles. I just can't seem to find the correct setting.
I think you are talking about contours? there is a contour smoothing function in the surface style dialog. But thin about what is creatin the angular contour; triangles.
Joe Bouza
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If you smooth the contours, they will no longer match the surface.
You may want to look into the Smooth Surface command. It is located in the Surface's Definition > Edits shortcut menu. This command will add interpolated points to the surface which will cause the contours to appear smoothed. Look at Civil 3D's Help document for explanation on using the command.
Thanks I'll give that a look. But I also must share my philosophy regarding contours; (please take no offense)....
"All Contours are lies"; all it take is one look to see : samples provided upon request
Joe Bouza
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Joe:
I would like to see the sample to understand analogy you put forward.
Is it possible to share few snapshots.
Regards, Mayur
Here you go aumtech, the dashed contours were drawn by the surveyors software and the solid one by civil3d, with the same TIN lines. This phenomena can also been seen any time you edit a TIN by flipping faces; depending on the triangles orientation the contour will be drawn differently
Joe Bouza
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forgot the picture
Joe Bouza
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Also. If the Surveyor has taken shots on a 50' gird and you have a contour line passing through the center of a square of that grid. If a check shot is taken at a point on the contour line. Is is very unlikely that the check shot will match the exact elevation of the contour line. How close your contours match what is really on the ground depends on the density of the data, what software you use, how well the operator can use the software and the quality of the Survey information.
If the rodman thinks that setting the rod anywhere within a tenth of the called for height is acceptable, you have a built in error factor before you even touch the data. If the instrument person never checks their vertical culmination you have other problems .After all that you can talk about how close to whatever datum specified the shots are in actuality.
I've seen people use adequate survey information to create totally bogus surfaces. Even the best work is subject to some interpolation. When editing a surface for a site that you have not visited. You will be making assumptions based on general knowledge of how ground tends to lay. These may be correct in that specific case or there may be factors that the operator is unaware of at that time.
Allen
Allen Jessup
CAD Manager - Designer
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Thanks guys for the info.
So basically this is something we as engineers can not do much about as we always rely on surveyors for the data. I tend to generate my own surface out of XYZ file received from surveyor. But if there is inbuilt error as Allen has pointed out, then I am stuck with the data and running my own surface won't help much.
Interesting!
Mayur
The only thing you can do about it is if you're hiring the Surveyor, make shure they provide quality work. If the Surveyor was hires by your client then there's not much you can do about it.
One thing I would always reccomend is, if possible, is to make a site visit. I've had Engineers call and complain that the data provided is obviouly wrong. When if they had done a site visit they would have known that it was correct.
The "All contours are lies" quote is not meant to say anyones work is deficient or that someone doesn't care. What it's used for is to try to get people over agonizing about every little bump in a surface. I'm as quilty as the next.
Allen
Allen Jessup
CAD Manager - Designer
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Contractors follow contour lines drawn on plans also. Samples available upon request.
I will make my sample available here to the masses to make my point. See where the curb in this photo was constructed above the level of the sidewalk at the handicap ramp? Apparently the Contractor followed the errant contour line and not the correct spot elevations on the plans. I think our model omitted a feature line here but still, it shows that contour lines must be modeled correctly.
The Smooth surface edit does not always work perfectly, so we usually have to go back and trace a polyline over that squiggly contour and apply it to the surface as a contour to make it right. Otherwise, the Contractor may apply undesired "surface roughening" to that area. You never know what you're going to get, so it needs to be correct on the plan. Civil 3D grading tools are not always the final answer. In many cases, the contours still need tweaking. This polyline tracing technique defeats the purpose of having an intelligent model. Do you feel my pain?
another sample of where my lead engineer does not think my 2' x 2' smoothing surface grid edit did not work good enough (highlighted in green). Will have to trace over the surface generated contours with polylines and reapply them as contours to that surface.....uuggghhhh!!!
Getting back to the original question....
kentanner, if you're still monitoring this post, I just read a write-up that will help you smooth out the tie-in grades and 'round-out' the contours. Daylight Rounding.
yep. seen that article. That's for daylighting to a surface within a corridor model. What if it is not a daylight?
Round with hand-modified contours and add to surface, similar to the ditch fix you're showing above. A real pain, and I use the corridors as much as I can to avoid having to do it by hand.
Hi Dave: Ped- ramps seem to be the ire of designers and builder alike. But when I look at your photo (a gem by the way), I cannot blame c3d, the designer, drafter or the contractor. The blame goes squarely on the shoulders of the inspector and the mason.
Ignorance and indifference will make a gold brick drafted design look like crap.
Joe Bouza
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I agree with you whole-heartedly Joe! thanks 🙂
The mason was out to lunch
Joe Bouza
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