ReCAP , Pix4D, or TBC Advanced w/ Photogrammetry module?

[CivilFlow]

ReCAP , Pix4D, or TBC Advanced w/ Photogrammetry module???

We need software to process aerial photogrammetric construction site topo data from a UAV for eventual use as a TIN surface in C3D or Infraworks.  Seeking thoughts about which works best and is most efficient? 

Will point cloud data for 100 acre site bog down C3D?  What workflows on the front end of C3D help mitigate that?

Thanks in advance.   

[tcorey · Accepted solution]

ReCap Photo (part of ReCap 360) if you want the point cloud/orthophoto processed in the cloud.

Pix4D is great, but you might tie up your workstation for days, no exaggeration. 

Consider adding Global Mapper with LIDAR module into the mix, as well. This program makes a surface model from your point cloud, lickety-split. Then you just export the contours and use those to create the surface in Civil 3D. It's far less taxing than creating a surface directly from the point cloud in Civil 3D. If you're doing much with large datasets, Global Mapper is a must. It has great tools for editing the point cloud, as well.

Also, InfraWorks includes tools to find ground surface and create linear and vertical features from a point cloud. If you have AEC Industry Collection, check it out.

[_Hathaway · Accepted solution]

We wanted to keep things in house and initially started with Recap.  It is very user unfriendly and is frankly not ready primetime imo.  The interface is difficult, at best, and the coordinate system issues are difficult to navigate.

We run our drone weekly and run it though Pix4d>Virtual Surveyor> then export all data to Civil3d seamlessly.  It works great and can be on any coordinate system you need to be on with zero issues.

Again, i would like to use recap but when we can do twice the work in 1/20th of the time it's hard to go down that road.

[CivilFlow]

Thanks guys!  I've seen some cool videos showing the ReCap Photo workflow.  My only concern is I don't get any control of how the mesh / point cloud is created because it is all done in the cloud on the Autodesk Mother ship. 

Can you briefly describe the output workflow from Pix4D to C3D when you have time?  Can be a broad stroke summary.  Do you have any comment on Site size.  @tcorey alluded to slow processing time via pix4D...do you have anything to add on that topic?

Thanks!

[_Hathaway]

True, you will need to upload your data to Pix4d and wait a day for the data to be processed. This has not been an issue for us but certainly could be in certain situations. We don't use point cloud functionality at all. Again, initially we did because that's all anyone discussed when reviewing drone workflow. While I cannot divulge our entire process, (it took us quite a while to figure it out...as you are seeing...there is no clear path from A to B) We us Virtual surveyor to create a dtm based on criteria we supply. This is exported to Civil3d along with other items, as necessary. Good Luck out there!

[rl_jackson · Accepted solution]

I had some experience with the using data from Pix4D and there is a bug in how 4D creates the GeoTiff that will not allow it to load in Civil3D, so you'll need yet another piece of software to convert large file over a Gig.... Personally for the price of 4D it should provide a SID

[tcorey]

I use QGIS (free!) to convert and reduce resolution. 

[autoMick · Accepted solution]

Pix4d is a great piece of software for what it does, but jeez its expensive. I really wish Autodesk provided a non-cloud version of Recap Photo. If you're in an area of low internet speed (i.e. the whole of Australia) then this is a big issue and one of the main reasons that Pix4d is still attractive.

cheers

Mick

[spear_kevin_pe · Accepted solution]

All great comments from everyone. The solution is likely wrapped up in what you're trying to deliver. Do you need an ortho-photo geo-rectified with ground control or not? Recap can do this but establishing the control does not give you confidence in the accuracy. Other applications are better in my experience.

Do you need a point cloud to generate a TIN? Again, presuming you're on a datum with ground control, recap is tough to use. Pix4D does a great job. Infraworks does a far better job of turning any point cloud into a surface than C3D could ever do. 

In general, Recap is not intuitive until it is intuitive. My Pix4D experience has actually been through another service called SiteScan. That's more of an end to end solution than just photo processing. It takes the photos and processes them in the cloud using P4D engine and generates all the deliverable types you want in about 2 hours for 200 photos with a report from P4D showing accuracy/tolerances. And all the data is available all the time and can be shared without having to email / FTP large datasets. It also has great analysis tools built into the system for measurements, establish control (including assumed datums), volumes, etc. 

But for all that functionality, its an annual subscription. If you're doing one drone job a month, it's probably not worth it. You'd do better to just own P4D. But if you're doing 2 or 3 a week and maybe doing construction documentation... SiteScan is a steal.

Side note, we are a dealer for SiteScan, but the need for that type of service is what drove us to be a dealer for it. They are proactive in development. It is not the same as it was 2 years ago or even 2 months ago. They are constantly adding functionality each month that addresses the communities needs. 

Anyway... more information for you to make a decision. Good luck!

[tcorey]

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@CivilFlow wrote:

...  @tcorey alluded to slow processing time via pix4D...do you have anything to add on that topic?

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That comment was meant to convey my preference for a cloud-based solution. Using other people's computing power is efficient. When I used Pix4D, in 2015, they didn't have a cloud solution. If they have one now, then I have no reason to recommend Autodesk, other than that I'm an Autodesk reseller and it's better for me if everyone uses Autodesk instead of a competing product. 😉 

One advantage of ReCap Photo is that it is already part of your AEC Industry Collection. The only cost you have is a few cloud credits per project. I recommend you at least try it. You can submit the same photos that you submit to Pix4D or DroneDeploy. Be sure you have control points.

[autoMick · Accepted solution]

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@tcorey wrote:

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@CivilFlow wrote:

...  @tcorey alluded to slow processing time via pix4D...do you have anything to add on that topic?

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Using other people's computing power is efficient. 

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I think it depends on your situation. In my case, my computer doesn't do anything when I'm asleep, so setting up something to process overnight is no problem at all. I guess the same would apply to uploading images. For my internet speeds, it literally takes hours to upload a typical drone survey, and then I have to download the results again- so desktop based processing is actually faster and doesn't tie up bandwidth.

In the case of Pix4d, it is easy to stage the analysis, which will weed out any problems with the data. An example where this is useful for me is with the photo stitching. My consumer grade drone, records altitude, but it is significantly offset from GPS ellipsoid z values, so it is necessary to play around with the photo data, just so the photos can be matched against the ground control points. I like the idea of having manual control of this (with a bit of trial and error) rather than just hoping I got it right first time and sending it off to the cloud.

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One advantage of ReCap Photo is that it is already part of your AEC Industry Collection. The only cost you have is a few cloud credits per project. I recommend you at least try it. 

Notwithstanding the above, I couldn't agree more. I just wish that Autodesk provided the desktop based approach as an option. Other than that I think it is a very good option.

BTW - when I was evaluating the beta version of Recap photo, I also took the opportunity to send the same survey set to dronedeploy as well as using Pix4d. The results coming back weren't identical by any means - so anyone considering what service provider to use should definitely do a comparison for a few typical projects to see how what best suits. Most providers have trials and the Autodesk cloud credits are cheap.

cheers

Mick

[CivilFlow]

Thank you all for the help. I’m going to try Pix4D and ReCAP Photo...will share my results here in the future.

Quick question: We have a robust server apparently set up with 48 processing cores that we use for crunching large complex hydrology models, etc. If I install on this server, would any of the above-mentioned desktop platforms be capable of leveraging that kind of processing power to reduce the inherent processing delays to large UAS datasets 100-600 acre construction sites)?

Thanks again.

[autoMick]

Hi Mike, From the Pix4d site: https://support.pix4d.com/hc/en-us/articles/202559519-Hardware-components-usage-when-processing-with....

Without really knowing the answer - it would seem your strategy to run on the server might be a very good one. Maybe do all the processing there, but do your 3d viewing etc. on a workstation with a good graphics card?

Good luck

Mick

[lukeSPSUA]

There are several other viable cloud and desktop photogrammetry processing solutions worth looking at.  Here's a short list.

1. DroneMapper
2. Agisoft
3. CivilTracker
4. CapturingReality

I always suggest trying multiple ones and figure out which works best.  If we all agreed there'd only be one solution left it business 😀