Poor 3D performance

[Palomox55]

Since I started using Civil3D 2024, I've had performance issues that I cannot explain.

First of all, this is the version I'm running (I believe it's the latest)

My computer is a laptop which runs the latest upgrade of Windows 10, and I'm quite sure the hardware is not an issue:

CPU: Core i7-13700H

RAM 16GB@5200MHz, DDR5

DGPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060, 8gb VRAM, 120W power limit

And the disk is an SSD.

My issue is poor 3D performance. When I try to orbit a not too large model (e.g. a contours representation or a small TIN), it is extremelly laggy and really uncomfortable to use. Sometimes, turning off hardware acceleration makes it run better, but I don't think that's the solution (one of the reasons I bought this computer was to have good performance in CAD and CAE software, and having to disable hardware acceleration to achieve this is definitely disappointing), and sometimes I simply am required to use acceleration (e.g. LiDAR pointcloud).

I of course use my computer while plugged, and with all the power settings set to max performance. The version of DirectX I use is 12, but I've already tried the command to use DX11 and no luck.

I know that GeForce cards are not as optimized for CAD and other similar applications as workstation cards, but this one should definitely at least work well for this little load, so I assume it's some kind of configuration issue. I'm using the latest Nvidia Studio Drivers, too, so that's not the cause either.

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Lucy

[neilyj666]

I have never really have satisfactory Civil 3D performance when viewing in 3D and I have no idea why. This is a contrast to Infraworks where spinning and flying around huge models (all imported from Civil) is a pleasure.

I though there was a fancy new graphics engine in AutoCAD 2024 but presumably not in Civil so far?

[Palomox55]

Well, that's definitely sad to hear. I actually think it's AutoCAD's bad, not Civil's because opening the exact same drawing with AutoCAD 2024 is just as laggy.

The thing is, what I don't understand is why it works (much) better without hardware acceleration. This is what leads me to think it's a config issue.

I'm adding a video showing the difference between on and off, just so anyone can see how bad it is.

[rl_jackson]

Personally, I would consider 16GB of ram to be a bare minimum for modelling in C3D. Also, while gaming cards work with C3D there are advantages using Quadro workstation-based graphics cards.

[Palomox55]

I think I'm not getting my point across properly.

I believe there's some sort of configuration or compatibility issue. See the video activating and deactivating hardware acceleration.

Whereas 16gb of ram might be little for complex models, the one I'm working with is extermelly small. And, in any case more than 5gb of ram are completely free while modeling. So that is not a problem now.

And,  yes, Quadro cards are better than GeForce ones for this use, as I admitted in my original post. But, again, this is a very small model, and nowadays the difference between Quadro and GeForce is drivers or firmware. For instance: the chip that powers my RTX 4060 is the AD107, same as the laptop workstation NVIDIA RTX 2000 Ada Generation card. And, in any case, even if there were more differences between workstation and gaming cards, this is a tiny model, with awful performance.

[m_kingdon]

You are orbiting a 3D model in the model space, the performance you are experiencing is completely normal for what you are trying to do.  There is nothing wrong with your hardware or Civil 3D.  If you want to view objects and scrutinise them in 3D you need to open them in the object viewer.

Civil 3D is slightly unusual in the way that it can design in 3D but it's poor at rendering in 3D.  The Object Viewer is Civil 3D's rendering sandbox.  If you want to build a complete model that is live then you need to export the data in Infraworks.

[neilyj666]

I find that for some drawings turning off Hardware Acceleration greatly improves panning and zooming etc

[matt_anderson_pe]

One item I would suggest might be to freeze those layers you are not displaying when you orbit.  No Display objects still calculate, but do not show.

[Palomox55]

Thanks everyone for their recommendations. Especially for the last one, I didn't know hiding layers worked that way.

But anyway, I feel it's quite disappointing that the 3D performance of Civil3D (and AutoCAD) is so bad. Bear in mind that Autodesk is no small new company, they've been here for a long while, and their software isn't exactly cheap.I think they could consider actually rewriting AutoCAD's rendering engine or whatever that has to be done. Especially considering other programs don't have the slightliest struggle with such small models (or bigger ones).

But, anyway, I still can't believe this is how it's supposed to be. I guess I'll have to just deal with it.

[m_kingdon]

I still don't fully understand your workflow or what you are trying to achieve?  If you describe your workflow we might be able to assist you better.

[neilyj666]

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@m_kingdon wrote:

  If you want to build a complete model that is live then you need to export the data in Infraworks.

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@Palomox55 I'd suggest Navisworks is a good alternative if you want to view in 3D and may be more flexible than Infraworks in showing what you want to show

[Palomox55]

It's nice to know there are better programs for 3D viewing, but you're missing my point. I am NOT using Civil3D to view a model. I am using it to CREATE a model of the terrain, given contours, a DEM, or anything. You see, things that Civil3D is used for.

My issue is that while doing the 3D operations that I need to do in order to work with my model, the performance is absolutely awful, making it extremelly unpleasant to work with this.

And, to make it clear. The drawing I am working with is literally 555 contours (polylines), and a few 3D polylines, and a TIN (which is not the issue because the performance is bad even when said surface display style is set to no display, and layers disabled). As you can see, it is a small thing.

But what I am also saying is that the performance WITH hardware acceleration is worse than the one WITHOUT, as you can see if you watch the video posted earlier (till the end). Even if some people say it's just like that for some drawings, I can't believe it's such badly made (because it works better without acceleration)

If you have any additional specific question, just ask me and I'll answer. But no, I cannot use any other piece of software.

[neilyj666]

@Palomox55 Can you share these "...literally 555 contours (polylines), and a few 3D polylines..." and we can try creating the TIN and seeing what, if any, issues there are.

[Palomox55]

I don't know why you need it, because it's exactly what you can see in the video in the third post, but alright. This is the original cartography file, disable all layers but "Relieve_lin" and create a TIN with the contours if you wish to do so.

[neilyj666]

@Palomox55 

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@Palomox55 wrote:

I don't know why you need it, because it's exactly what you can see in the video in the third post, but alright. This is the original cartography file, disable all layers but "Relieve_lin" and create a TIN with the contours if you wish to do so.

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...because I thought it may be useful to try to establish what if anything is happening. Please also remember that we are not Autodesk employees but regular day to day users and are trying to help other users with Civil 3D problems and we are under no obligation to offer any assistance whatsoever...but we do...!!!!

[rl_jackson]

I'd second that, sounds like an overabundance of vertices in the contour lines being used to create the surface.

Didn't see the posting of the drawing file.

[m_kingdon]

For the task of modelling a surface. I would use the Object Viewer for the 3D panning and use a cut/fill surface and profiles & longsections for comparison and analysis. Are you using the Object Viewer? It does the 3D panning that you want, you just been to select the two surfaces and invoke it first.

Programs that support full 3D rendering (such as Revit / Twinmotion) certainly look better and have a more modern feel when panning and interacting with the environment, but they also have a serious limitation in that they only work within a limited area. If Civil 3D had this limitation, then you’d need to specify a false origin of 0,0,0 and a limited site boundary for every project. Rather, Civil 3D lets us choose any location in the world with any coordinate system that is available in an extensive list. Accurate real-world location data is mission critical for civil design projects, nice 3D rendering is not.

But again, are you using the Object Viewer? If you want to 3D pan your surface, this is the tool you are looking for.

[Palomox55]

I'd second that, sounds like an overabundance of vertices in the contour lines being used to create the surface.

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I mean thing is it happens to me without creating the TIN as well, just with the contours, which are simple polylines. Does it happen to you too?

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But again, are you using the Object Viewer? If you want to 3D pan your surface, this is the tool you are looking for.

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To be honest, I didn't know about it. But, can it be used to do things that I need to do with AutoCAD-like's model space (to give it a name)? e.g. editing the TIN, like removing and adding points, or selecting the contours to create it

[rl_jackson]

Attached is a surface drawing, now I didn't look everywhere to verify its conformance with your contour lines, but it's pretty close to what you had.

Workflow,

1. Built surface from contours and breaklines of stream/river.
2. Extracted points from resulting surface.
3. Used Data extraction to create a ENZ comma delimited file for the surface (attached).
4. Removed all previous contour data from the drawing and the surface
5. Added the resulting ENZ point file to the surface.
6. Simplified the surface with a 50% point removal
7. Tilted surface in a SW Isometric with Shading

Pan and Zoom is simple (It was no issue without simplifying the surface).

Now from the attached file, my normal finish to the workflow would be to create a data shortcut of the surface for reference into other drawings as need.

Note: Contours are one of the worst things to use in the creation of a surface.

HTH

[neilyj666]

@rl_jackson @Palomox55 In my experience, contours are probably the worst objects from which to create a surface due to the number of vertices typically associated with them.

OVERKILL and WEEDFEATURES can be used to thin them but if this isn't done then simplifying the surface can create a very lightweight surface for use as a data shortcut. I use simplify quite a bit with LIDAR/Point cloud data and it makes a massive difference to the surface.

I typically use the 3D object viewer for sense checking the surface and I usually just work in plan view