North Arrow and Scale Bar blocks don't load

[jacob.dwyer]

Hi There,

Our company has created custom north arrow and scale bars. Up until about last week, we had no issues with them at all. They worked and looked great. We would add them to drawings through the "Layout Tools" ribbon by selecting "north arrow/scale bar" > "load custom north arrow", selecting our block drawing and then picking the arrow/bar. 

Now, following that same process, we get a list of "** undefined shape xx" errors and no blocks show up. This is happening on all machines in the office, and in all drawings we've tried so far, and blocks will not load from any drawings we have tried. There have been no changes in our system between when they were working and when they stopped working.

We are currently working around the issue by inserting the blocks and roatating/scaling them manually. I'm hoping we can find a solution other than using a different system to create dynamic north arrows and scale bars.

Thanks

[ricksr]

Just a thought.  It sounds like those blocks have shapes in them.  Shapes usually reside in a .shx file.  That .shx file needs to reside in a folder that is part of you search path (Options > Files tab > Support File Search Path) or in the same folder as the drawing or it won't find the shapes.

[jacob.dwyer]

The some of the blocks do contain linetypes with shapes, but all of our drawings use the same shapes, and all of the .shx files we use are located in files that are either already in or have been added to the Support File Search Path. It only shows up as an issue when I try to open a .dwg to select a custom block. The drawings open fine, with no shape errors.

The most bizzare thing is nothing changed in AutoCAD to cause this error. It was working great one week, and then just not the next. No software update, no changes to any of the drawing files. I did try moving our template files in the search path to the bottom instead of the top, but that made no difference. 

[ricksr]

I noticed in you first post you were inserting these blocks from the "Layout Tools".  Have you tried just inserting them using the insert command?  What version of AutoCAD/Civil 3D are you using?

[jacob.dwyer]

The blocks I'm looking to use already exist in the drawings. The problem is they don't load up when trying to add a custom north arrow or scale bar.The field where you would normally select a block is blank for the current drawing and for all drawings I try to load.

My current workaround is inserting the blocks as normal and manually adjusting the values to reflect the status of the viewport. This is not ideal because it isn't dynamic.

[ricksr]

Would you mind sending me the drawing and the blocks and I'll take a look

[Ayres Associates]

Ronald B Ricks
Senior CADD Technician
Ayres Associates
3665 JFK Parkway, Bldg. 2, Suite 100 * Fort Collins, CO 80525-3152
Office: 970.223.5556 * Direct: 970.797.3534
RicksR@AyresAssociates.com
www.AyresAssociates.com

[rl_jackson]

Don't use the Layout Tools to get them in the drawing this is a very buggy part of C3D and has not worked correctly all they way back to 2013. If you want to have your layouts be blank or the view port become corrupted to the point that you have to recreate it feel free to continue to use them.

[jacob.dwyer]

We'll usually create the object with the Layout tools and then explode it or otherwise sever its connection to the viewport after we're satisfied with what we have. Its faster and more accurate than doing it manually and comes without the issues of leaving them linked. Really, this is a pretty minor thing. I was looking to see if anyone else had encountered it and if it was fixable. 

[achesterfield]

I think the work around solution is to open the "sample" location and edit the "Map - North Arrows.dwg" file directly. You will need to have C3D closed and copy out the file to a different location. Then edit it and then close c3d and replace the file. I suggest keeping a copy of the old one so that should you not be satisfied with the results you can just replace it. Note the sample one uses all blocks with inches set as units and the file itself is in inches. So if you are in a metric country you will need to update this content. 

C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD 2023\Map\Sample\Symbols

If this is updated it will allow you to use your custom content file within the "sample" dialog box. i came to this tread with a similar problem. I am guessing it is related to some AutoDesk issue in their current build. I am on 2023 version and can't load or even see the blocks within the current drawing. Was very frustrating. Additional note you may need administrator privileges to change this location content. I have tested this on my build and it worked for me.

[brian.strandberg]

If your not familiar with what this does when it breaks, it will destroy your view in the viewport the north arrow is associated with.  I was using the layout tools north arrows for a while, and most the members our company had no problems.  However 1 team had an issue over and over again.  When someone goes to print a set of drawings and all the views have to be redone its a big issue. (and yes - viewports are locked automatically in our system, but with this bug, it doesn't matter).

[jacob.dwyer]

In the years since I originally posted this, we've actually moved away from the layout tools. Management didn't like that scale bars for different scales were different sizes, not to mention the many bug associated with both dynamic north arrows and scale bars. We now have a scale bar block with various visibility states that allows a user to select a scale, and use model space to orient a north arrow block in the correct direction through CHSPACE.

just wasn't worth the bother of the viewport corruption.

[achesterfield]

Yes - All valid comments above. Happy for you all to do it manually. But sometimes we need to grasp hold of new/better ways to do things to improve technology for us all (like AI). Something I learnt post my post is that it is best to install the north arrow into the template file you use for sheeting your plans. It is then already attached to your viewport and will rotate correctly. You could still include a visibility state to turn it off at any stage. I have not experimented with the scale bar option as this is preconfigured in the template file already and you are choosing your view scale when you use the auto sheet options when exporting the plans. So, no need to even let C3D manage it. I get that people are fearful of corruption errors and it is time consuming debugging things. I am also aware that Autodesk monitors our chats in these forums so there is hope that they might look into the issues you are both raising and flag it for correction in future releases. If you are on a subscription service have you logged it with them as an issue? The more that log the higher the priority becomes for a repair. Don't crucify the "work around solution" provider, go take it up with AutoDesk if something is not working for you.

[v-silvestre]

Hi @jacob.dwyer, I've had the same issues with custom blocks not being showing up in the Layout Tools.  My fix was to just save my custom north arrow block into the drawing it's pulling the default ones from.  That can be found:

Close and save the drawing, and then use the "Load Custom North Arrow", and it's showing up: