Geographic Point File Format Columns

[Pointdump]

Autodesk probably thought the Latitude and Longitude Column Names in Point File Formats were so intuitive that the Help Section didn't need to describe what each one did.

I exported a Latitude of 39.17383194 (Decimal Degrees), using all of the Latitude Column Names. Here's the results:

Latitude >> 39.10257950 (DD.MMSSssss)
Degrees-Latitude >> 39
Minutes-Latitude >> 10
Seconds-Latitude >> 25.7950
Hemisphere-Latitude >> N
DECDEG Latitude >> 39.17383194 (Decimal Degrees)
DASHED Latitude >> 39-10-25.7950

It's nice that Autodesk gave us all these Column possibilities. Lots of flexibility.

Dave

[autoMick]

Hi Dave,

Yes Civil3d has so many features that offer flexibility, many of them barely mentioned in the documentation. Your post is a great example. More often than not I am pleasantly surprised that a certain option is available if I have a need and I look for it. It would be nice to document all these 'hidden' aspects a bit better though.

I've only been using the program since 2012, and it makes me wonder how steep the development/learning curves must have been in the years before then because there certainly is a lot to this software.

Cheers

- Mick

[Pointdump]

Hi Mick,

"It would be nice to document all these 'hidden' aspects a bit better though."

So many rabbit holes, so little time!

I think the best thing Autodesk ever did was create the Forums. Genius! But a lot of the Help Section remains unchanged, especially parts that desperately need some expansion.

Dave

[autoMick]

I completely agree Dave, the forums really add an amazing level of support. Personally I've never attended a single training course and have probably only run through 5, maybe 10 of the actual Autodesk tutorials (which really need improving IMO). I can honestly say the majority of my learning has come from forum contributions. 

I read somewhere that the next generation of internet search engines aren't really geared towards indexing/linking existing content/solutions... the real gold is a search engine that will directly take you to the right person to ask a question, not looking for pre-existing answer. The forums do this now pretty well.

Of course, a lot of software providers also provide forums, some more successful than others. The worst ones are the ones where a moderate strides into a thread and says "this has been answered many times before... use the search function" - thereby killing any useful discussion.

Cheers

- Mick

[AllenJessup]

You would think that with online help the information in help would expand yearly. I see the reverse happening. Every year it gets more minimalistic. The help in 2017 doesn't seem useful to any but a new user. Even then there is nothing in-depth about the command. It's just - Select this from the ribbon > accept the defaults > select or create something > done.

I still keep an R12 (June, 1992) on hand. It has a lot of good information on the basic AutoCAD commands. The manuals for Softdesk (pre LDT) included everything including the algorithms used in the Survey calculations.

[Pointdump]

Hi Allen,

And have you noticed that when you do a search in the Help it brings up threads from the Forums mixed in with those old, unchanged, minimalistic entries!

Dave

[AllenJessup]

Hey Dave,

Yes. But it's not just Autodesk. I sent a comment to Microsoft online support the other day. We just went from Office 97 to Office 365, a big jump. I closed their ribbon and couldn't remember how to get it back. Every thing if put in their site as a search, no matter how I phrased it, returned exactly the same results. Never did find the answer there. I clicked around and found it myself.

I don't know whether it's a monetary thing or if everyone now thinks everything above the most basic use of a program qualifies as advanced help.

[autoMick]

@Pointdump I didn't know that about the search results - I was just about to suggest that would be good idea.

@AllenJessup My take on it is that software developers realise how effective forum help can be, so it means they can get away with less in the actual documented help. I think that is acceptable in terms of how to guides and tutorials, however there's no excuse for not properly documenting each command and what it does and if there are any cautions associated with that command.

My main issue with the Autodesk 'tutorials' is that they were simple recipes, with no real discussion of the decisions to be made, options in the process or why a person would use this command in preference to another strategy to create the same result

Cheers

- Mick

[Pointdump]

G'day Mick,

I've seen LOTS of your posts in the Help Section. Autodesk seems to prefer a Help entry with a Screencast, and your Screencasts are among the best.

"...there's no excuse for not properly documenting each command and what it does..."

Yup. I have that same gripe about pretty much every software I've ever used.

Dave

[autoMick]

You flatter me Dave, but thanks - I didn't know.

Back to the topic (sort of).. one tip for young players if you want to make allow coordinate transformations (i.e. the point data is in coordinate system "A", but your drawing is in "B"), then you have to modify or create a point file format, where you use "Grid Easting" and "Grid Northing" instead of just "Easting" and "Northing" in the point file format (as well as setting the coordinate system name). Simple of course, but something I remember a frustrating afternoon trying to sort out once.

Cheers

- Mick

[AllenJessup]

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@autoMick wrote:

...there's no excuse for not properly documenting each command and what it does and if there are any cautions associated with that command.

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One problem is that sometimes the helper need help to help others. I get frustrated when I want to help with what seems to be a simple question but can't find any documentation beyond the most basic.

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@autoMick wrote:

My main issue with the Autodesk 'tutorials' is that they were simple recipes, with no real discussion of the decisions to be made, options in the process or why a person would use this command in preference to another strategy to create the same result

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That reminds me of CAD operators I've dealt with who want to write down what I'm telling them step by step even though I tell them that this might not be the same situation the next time. This isn't assembly line work.