Export pipe network from C3D to IFC (geometry data missing)

[mkhaledazzam]

i have exported pipe network from C3D to IFC then when i loaded it in navisworks i found that structures have only extended data i have added and misses all geometry data just like insertion rim elevation, invert level even description or names.

Highly appreciated for any help.

Thanks in advance. 

[drazen.galic]

Seems that IFC export cannot do what you want. But NWCOUT (creation of NWC for Navisworks) can do that. Even, it writes to many data for my taste. If you work with Navisworks should be OK. For wider compatibility with other BIM platforms, IFC is necessary.

Drazen

[mkhaledazzam]

Thanks for your respond, i tried to export nwc from C3D (NWCOUT) but i found only name and description for structure with missing invert levels, insertion rim elevation, northing and easting. appreciate your efforts.

[drazen.galic]

Hi Mkhaledazzam,

Inspected your picture attached? Strange. Are you working in Civil 3D at all? Because one complete tab is missing in Navis - Civil 3D tab. Look my pictures. The first one shows that I have AutoCAD and Civil 3D data tab (properties on right side). The second one shows all possible data in Civil 3D. 

Just loudly think, didn't check. Maybe the problem is in Civil compatibility (backward). For example if your Civil is older one and that pipe network is made with the newer version of Civil, so your version didn't recognize pipe network and treat it as pure 3D elements, with the only data in Acad tab. Not sure about that.

So, the questions are:

1. Do you work in Civil at all?

2. If yes, what version of Civil you have and with which version of Civil the network was created?

Drazen

[mkhaledazzam]

Hi Drazen,

I'm working on Civil 3D and Navisworks 2017 ( attached screenshots for both softwares)

So, the questions are:

1. Do you work in Civil at all?  Yes

2. If yes, what version of Civil you have and with which version of Civil the network was created I didn't understand this point you mean which version for pipe network catalog ?

Thanks in advance 

Mkhaledazzam

[drazen.galic]

My question, regarding versions is because Civil 3D objects (i.e. pipes) are not backward compatible. That means, if your pipe network is created with Civil 18, through "file save as" you can open the drawing in 17, but pipes will not be fully accessible.

But this is just speculation. Please, send me your file (seems that it is not to big). I mean DWG. You can attach it through post on discussion group, or you can send me directly to my mail d (dot) galic (at) studioars (dot) hr. I will then try to export to NWC to see what is going on.

Drazen

[drazen.galic]

Hi,

Maybe I found the source of problem. I am constantly trying to repeat your problem on Civil 2018. Then I tried to do the same on Civil 2017. And I have the same results as you!!!!!!!

Seems that in Civil 2017, NWCOUT function does not export Civil 3D properties. I tried to found that fact in materials about differences between ver 2017 and ver 2018, but I didn't find that. So, cannot prove that it is true. But, as I said, tried to do it, seems it is true.

Maybe, somebody else from Autodesk can confirm that (@BushW - ????)

If this is real problem for you, maybe I can solve that with different method - using 3rd party solution.

Regards,

Drazen

[drazen.galic]

Or even better. I am pretty sure that you can do it, if you can use Civil 3D 2018. If you would like to check that, send me your file and if I can manage to have the data with NwcOut with 2018, that it is 100% sure.

Drazen

[mkhaledazzam]

First i'd thank you alot for your time in responding.

Second waiting for confirmation from Autodesk for any solution or update maybe works.

Third my main problem is that i'm working on a project and the client has a term to submit all models in IFC format with pipe networks data.

Best Regards,

Mkhaled

[drazen.galic]

I am pretty sure that Civil 2018 will solve your problem. You can continue to work on 2017 if you have it, but just for NwcOut you have to have 2018 version. Maybe someone in your company, if has 2018 can manage that job for you. It is question of few seconds - open file from 2017, make NwcOut, and that's it.

Drazen

[MikeEvansUK · Accepted solution]

Please note:

• Civil3d Native object properties will export through to a Navisworks file but not during an IFC export.
• Aec Extended Properties will pass through to both Navisworks and IFC.

This is why the information you're expecting won't come through the IFC file.

Using NWC export is limited to only those contexts selected by the export tool programming and as with dwfx will not add user defined context entries added to the partparam xml file.

DWFx files is the only version to publish Native QTO data, Nwc ignores this.

SO;

• If you want details available in Revit, IFC is the way forwards but you need to add everything of relevance as an Aec Property Data table.
• If you just want Civil3d OTB contexts & parameter information then just export to Nwc to get the basics into Navisworks.
• If you have Custom Contexts then you need to use Aec Extended Properties which will pass between either Ifc and Nwc files.

Aec Extended object Properties

Although I have created this data using a program the principle should still work (see image).

Type PropoertySetDefine and create a new style table called Pipe Table and one for Structure Table, set each object types to pipe or structure respectively.

Add all details for pipes in the pipes one and structures in the other. Once the data tables have been attached to the structures and pipes.

NB: See elsewhere for detailed tutorial regarding adding automatic information Chris@Civil3dReminders has a good example on his blog site.

Now type IFCexport and export the file.

Open the IFC in Navisworks and you should get the data displayed on the Pipe Table or Structure Table Tabs.

Hopefully this will assist.

Mike

Below in Navisworks from IFC export of the StructurePropertyTable data attached to structure.

[mkhaledazzam]

Excellent !! Thanks that's really what i need but i appreciate your efforts in helping me to add all other parameters(as shown in attached screenshot) for pipes and structures

as example name,description,dimensions,invert levels,cover level...etc.

i find "Civil3D reminders" blog very useful but he mentioned only one example for pipe material.

i searched on internet for different formulas without any solution as i'm not expert in formulas or codes.

thanks in advance

[drazen.galic]

Hi Mike,

Kudo for you and Chris. It is solution.

But hmmm... How many people - users, are able to accomplish that procedure?

Think that should be easier.

Property sets data are very nice thing, but seems to me that Autodesk did not make it fully functional. Or with another approach, that IFC should automatically take Civil 3D data.

Drazen

[MikeEvansUK]

I think you may find both the IFC Export utility and the Property set functions were built for Architecture quite some time ago so would not have been adapted for Civil3d yet. We are just learning how to use them now.

In the future IFC includes Infrastructure logic within so may change that.

Before the IFC & AecProperties were known about, I found a way to append via .net new element data to the DWF file during export as a workaround to pass custom contexts to NWC.

Compared to that this is a much better route but agreed from my point of view it should be automated to reflect the Civil3d object properties (including those not in the box).

Glad to be of assistance.

M

[Anonymous]

For those of you who have found the Civil3D tab missing in Navisworks.  This is a known issue.  I reported through my enterprise support contact who got me a temporary solution.

The solution is a bit to involved to post here without access to my work computer and the instructions / files and limitations.  Drop me a DM.  

[Anonymous]

@BushW as I mentioned above there is a known issue with Navisworks 2017 not displaying the Civil3D tab.  I have a solution from EPS but I'm not aware if there is a public solution to this problem.  Could you have a look and see if there is a knowledge base article for it that could be shared here?  You can find details under case 13205086.

[MikeEvansUK]

This appears to be working in my installation. Civil3d 2016 to NWC.

Are we talking about the ifc export from civil3d or the NWC export? Or is this related to a 2017/18 issue we have located?

M

[Anonymous]

Mike

Civil3D 2017 export to NWC and the missing Civil3D tab in Navisworks.  Seems to be a specific C3D 2017 issue