Drawing files increasing in size with each open/save - becoming unusable

[sbsomers]

We have been having a MAJOR problem with a particular project's dwg files. In a number of files, we noticed that the file sizes were getting out of control until the files were unusable. When we looked at previous saves, we noticed that each time the drawing was opened fresh and saved, the file would increase anywhere from 10-20mb. Upon testing, this would happen even if no work was done in the drawing - simply opening it and saving it as-is would cause the file size to jump dramatically. 

We were able to go through our sheets and "solve" the problem by saving down to .dxf, doing a "-purge" of all entities, and then saving it back to a C3D file. Some of our drawings lost the Civil 3D dynamic labels in the process so we had to do some re-labeling (some retained the labels), but all the drawings came back down to a very reasonable file size (most about 2mb, except the grading plan with all our feature lines and surfaces which rests at 17mb).

We did not have to do this to our main base file because it seemed to be holding true at 22mb. Since it has all of our pipe networks, alignments, and profile views, I really did not want to save down and lose all the dynamic data).

Well, it seems that our base file (attached PPLN) has started exhibiting the same odd behavior. It's not just my workstation either. Anyone who has tried to open the file gets the same result. There is some kind of corruption or hidden data that is duplicating itself - or something like that - that's causing the drawing file size to balloon out of control until it's so big that it's unusable and takes 15 minutes to open. 

We still have to finish this project, so we absolutely need this file to work properly. I'm hoping we can get some help from someone who maybe has an idea what's going on so we can get this problem resolved. We've spent over 40 man-hours trying to resolve this on our own and with the support of our software distributor. I just submitted a support request to AutoDesk itself, but I'm not holding my breath that they'll come up with a solution in time.

I'm using C3D 2017 and I've already updated to service pack 1.1 (after uninstalling SP1.0) and the problem continues to exhibit itself. I would try to see if the problem could be replicated on C3D 2016, but oh, wait, 2017 isn't backwards compatible... because of course it's not /s.

The problem doesn't seem to be happening in any other projects. After going through the save-down process with one of our sheets, we noticed that it might be the pipe labels causing the problem, but I haven't been able to confirm that or find a workaround. 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND DECENT IN THE WORLD... IN THE SPIRIT OF CHRISTMAS, SOMEONE HELP ME WITH THIS FILE. And it would be even better if you could help us understand the root cause. I've attached the unaltered file to this post.

Merry Christmas.

[sbsomers]

Steve,

Unfortunately, it's not a problem with the source drawing. I freakin' rebuilt the ENTIRE problem surface in the source drawing FROM SCRATCH and it didn't fix the problem in the child drawings.

The only workaround Autodesk themselves mentioned was to "delete and re import the surface via data shortcut or LandXML to resolve the issue."

[sboon]

I agree, the problem is that the child drawings are repeatedly copying something from the source.  What I'm trying to suggest is that you remove that option.  If the source file literally has nothing but the TIN then maybe you can get it to stop copying extra stuff.

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

[Anonymous]

Changing the setting of "store referenced surface in drawing" to "no" under Settings > Surfaces > Commands > Create Surface Reference > Right Click Edit Command Settings > Surface Creation will stop the file from getting too big by not saving the data that comes from the data reference item in the file. You also have to make sure the "data reference status" for the surfaces in the drawing is on: "Reference Only" (this is found on the toolspace while in prospector). This will only work in cases where you are just starting to bring in data reference surfaces into your drawing because if you already have a surface in the drawing and then change the setting it will not affect it.

Doing this was able to bring down our file sizes before but recently, even with that setting set to no, the files have been getting bigger after saving. To get around this we too are switching our labels to a difference surface then deleting the data reference surface from the file. What we are doing different is we are not bringing the data reference surface back since there is no permanent fix yet and do not want to have to keep doing this. So instead of labeling through the data reference we are labeling through the xref. The xref is where the data reference file is coming from anyways so no need to data reference it. I can see how this will not work for certain files but this is what we are doing for our grading files which tend to have a lot of labels. 

To change the surface of a label (so that you can delete the data reference surface) you click on the label and under the "general" category of the properties tab you will see all the surface options you have to pick from.

[n8ch]

Still no solution at this point, just work arounds?

[Anonymous]

Yes, the last I heard they were developing a fix to the Surface Bloat issue. Here's what the Autodesk Support Team Member told me:

Hi,

Thanks for uploading that bigger file.  So, your problem with that one is unfortunately a bug with Civil 3D 2017 we call surface bloat.  A surface in your drawing is causing your file size to bloat with each save.  In your case, for the drawing you uploaded, the surface is Base-5261.  I removed that surface from your drawing and it went from 280 MB to 6 MB.  Deleting the surface and re importing the surface via LANDXML or data shortcut will solve this problem. That bug is CIVIL-19438 and feel free to keep that for your records. This bug report has also made its way to the development team and they are currently working on a fix for it.  Ongoing testing on a fix does not allow me to say a release date unfortunately though.

Best regards,

Pat Lowe

Autodesk Support Team

[Anonymous]

Pat,

Has the development team resolved the bug for surface bloat? Is there an anticipated date that this issue will be resolved?

Thanks,

JF

[Anonymous]

Yes, they were able to develop a fix using the files that I sent them to their developers. They emailed it to me to Beta Test.

I don't know if they have released it yet, but it "REALLY WORKED" on our files! Give me your email and I can send you to

info for the fix.

Daphne

[Anonymous]

Daphne,

Thanks for the response. My email is jlfitzgerald11@gmail.com

JF

[Anonymous]

Daphne-

I am having the same issues with the surface bloat. Is there any chance that I could get the info for the fix as well?

Regards,

Tom Randall

trandall@navixeng.com

[Anonymous]

Hi Daphne,

I am hoping to get this message to you before you get completely swamped with requests!

This surface bloating is completely out of control for myself.  I understand if you can't, but if you would be willing to share the fix with me as well, it would be very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your consideration!

Katrina McKinnon

Katrina.McKinnon@Stantec.com

[Anonymous]

Has there been any word on this issue that solves it.  I hope it is not the well it was fixed in the next version but we do not know what caused it.  Bugs in software are nothing more than poor engineering in the testing and design.  The book from the early "Software Conspiracy" was interesting.  You would think that now they are using a rental model they would have some liability for the stability and bugs.

Oh well after 30 years I have been told my investment will be worthless with no future worth. 

This getting bigger reminds me of a problem from a decade ago too.

I hope this gets fixed. It now takes me a long time to open drawings that worked in April but now in the SP 1.1 are unstable.

[Anonymous]

Good-Morning,



Yes, there was a fix. They used the files we had and sent them to the Developers to come up

with a fix. If you provide your email. I will forward it to you. I have sent it to several people

and we all have seen significant changes in file size.



Thanks,

Daphne



##-Re: Drawing files increasing in size with each open/save - becoming unusable -##

[Anonymous]

This is my email for the issue of file growth.

[Anonymous]

I am glad, thought it was like the 2016 parcels being created for an unknown reason that was fixed in 2017 but no patch in 2016.

One of my email's is steveg@spg-pe.com or my old standard of stevengoodrich@hotmail.com

Thank you for your assistance.

Steven P. Goodrich, P.E. 

[Anonymous]

Hey Daphne,

I have also come across the surface bloat issue. Which naturally occurred to our largest project on the worst deadline.  I managed to stop the bloat bug from expanding as soon as it was apparent, however the drawing size is now of a size that the drawing is borderline unusable.  Since the drawing is maxing out the computers Ram (16GB) just sitting idle, working on/trouble shooting the drawing is a nightmare. 

I was desperately hoping that either yourself or someone else reading this, could send over the fix.  if possible, please send to: poorebeek@pearsoneng.com

Sincere thanks,

Pieter,

[Anonymous]

A permanent fix to this would be excellent. 

[Anonymous]

DOES THIS PROBLEM PERSIST IN 2018? 

[rkmcswain]

Just ran into this problem today.

Detaching a Dref surface causes the file size to drop upon the next save.

Reattaching it and saving - does not cause any problems, at least for now.

I suspect it could start happening again.

My question for you guys is -- does anyone know what the other trigger is, that causes this?

We have hundreds of other projects with the same configuration (Dref'ed surfaces in 2017) - and they are fine.

No evidence of this at all. Until today on a project that was going along fine for weeks.

And where is this "fix"? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

I am not aware of what is causing it.  I did get a message that it is being tested to include in a patch but it seems that a patch for 2017 has not appeared.  I was trying to get a physical copy for 2018 but since I am not able to download my order is now being predicted to be shipped near the end of October.  Some thing does not seem correct in the support but since I do not rent but own, or did own, this appear to be different.  I had hoped to test 2018 for the 50 drawing files I had increases in size since the patch last December when I noticed the issue, funny that.

I had one go from 450,000 Meg to 22,000 Meg, makes design hard to do on a complicated project.

Sorry not to know what is causing the problem, but the beta file seemed to work.

[Anonymous]

One of our surfaces in one of our projects is exhibiting the symptoms described in this thread.  It appears to have propagated throughout the entire project before it was brought to my attention.  I have confirmed that deleting the data reference and re-referencing drastically reduces the file sizes.  However, since the affected surface has been data referenced into numerous other DWG files and is subsequently used for profiles, labels, volume surfaces, part references, etc, we would have to invest too many man hours into meticulously rebuilding each file. 

Has anyone come up with any better workaround?  We tried promoting the surface and then rereferencing with AeccManageDataShorctuts, but unfortunately that didn't work.

If anyone can pm me with the fix for C3D2017 which Daphne cited in her post, I would definitely appreciate it.