Disappearing Feature Lines

[Christie.G]

I have read a number of forum post regarding disappearing feature lines, but have not had any luck finding a solution. Is there any progress on preventing this from happening as I have read on the posts that this has been a problem since 2007 and every version since.

This is a very costly problem due to time spent reconstructing the feature lines so if there is a fix or a way to prevent this happening could we please get an update.

[C3D_TomR]

@Christie.G

I've experienced this personally and empathize with your frustration. Would you please let me know what version of Civil 3D you are using when experiencing this issue? Here's a screencast from @Matt__W posted a screencast that shows where to find the version information including what updates are installed.

Here's a screen capture of the information I'm requesting.

Civil 3D About

The majority of times that I've seen this happen is in a template that was created from acad.dwt. This is what was causing issues in our drawings and we resolved it in future drawings by creating new templates from the NCS "out of the box" standard template provided by Autodesk.

The majority of times that I've seen this happen is in a template that was created from acad.dwt. This is what was causing issues in our drawings and we resolved it in future drawings by creating new templates from the NCS "out of the box" standard template provided by Autodesk.

I suggest you try @jporter's simple workflow to test this theory. 

1.  Create one site
2.  Draw two feature lines on that site
3.  Create a new site
4.  Move one of the feature lines to the new site
5.  Your first site disappears
6.  Save and close the drawing
7.  Reopen the drawing
8.  The feature lines may/may not be there
9.  A PURGE definitely deletes them

@jporter also has some good troubleshooting steps described here: Re: feature lines disappearing I've slightly modified his list and added a few more from other forum posts and troubleshooting discussions with Autodesk.

• Was the template or drawing you're using created from acad.dwt or the standard NCS template?
• Do you use a DNS replicating device?
• If it's only happening in specific drawings, what is common between those drawings (many feature lines? many surfaces from feature lines? many sites? feature line styles being used? crossing feature lines, etc., etc.)
• Have your run a RECOVER on the drawings (if your drawing has xrefs use RECOVERALL) to see if there are any errors it finds?
• Use the -PU command and purge all Regapps in the drawing.  
• Do the feature lines disappear after a specific command or sequence of commands? If so, you may want to post the drawing here so we can test as well.
• Do the feature lines appear fine and then only when you come back the next day they are gone?  If so, that could very possibly be a network or system issue.  
• Do you reboot your system regularly?
• Was any anti-virus software running during install of the software or updates?
• If you have anti-virus software running now, do you have exclusions setup for Autodesk software?

Please let me know if the issue is acad.dwt related. If not, we can work through the other items listed and see if there's another cause for your specific drawings. Also the version of Civil 3D you are using will be useful in the troubleshooting process.

[wpagl452]

Just to provide an update, this issue is still listed as unresolved with the development team. Reproducing the error has proven difficult which may explain the lack of progress on this issue. I'd certainly recommend backing up your grading files if you are experiencing this issue often. Wish I had better news on this!

[Anonymous]

So does the c3d 2018.2 include these new templets. Or are we screwed untill the boss agrees to an update to the newer versions. If they are not included then you need to issue a fix to correct our existing templates.

Not a happy camper at all!!!

[wpagl452]

I think @C3D_TomR is recommending making templates that suit your needs by starting with the provided NCS template as opposed to the AutoCAD acad.dwt template. Autodesk won't provide custom templates since each company/person may want something different.

For reference, the templates can be found here: C:\Users\<USER>\AppData\Local\Autodesk\C3D <YEAR>\enu\Template. 

[Anonymous]

That didn't answer my question. In what version where the new templates?

[Anonymous]

That should say, in what version were the new CMS Templated

[Anonymous]

Is the forom have problems?

In what version were the new NCS templates added?

[Anonymous]

All versions come with the current NCS templates for that version.  Post above has the path.

What we have done is start with NCS Imperial, changed what we needed, purged what we didn't.

We did this several version ago and have had few issues.

It can be time consuming to get the template the way you want it, but is worth it.

Hope that helps,

[ODO18]

Thank you very much for this thorough post on this very big issue.  Unfortunately I just attempted to eliminate all of those scenarios on your list and still have the issue.  I created the same proposed surface in our Company Template as well as a fresh NCS Imperial Template.  I did this on my Desktop on my home computer to avoid any linking to a server of any kind.  No xrefs or anything.  Had -purged and recovered before I created the surface.  In both templates, Company and fresh NCS, once I create the feature line, apply the corridor, create the surface everything is peachy.  But once I add a few PVIs, if I run an audit a parcel is created and my feature line is gone or if I do not run an audit and I just get out of the drawing and back in then my feature line is still there but it is not in my prospector anymore and so if I start to delete any PVIs or edit the feature line at all the definition of the corridor starts to get lost.

This has been a problem with Civil 3D for far too long.  Our Company has not upgraded from 2017 to 2019 because it is still not fixed.  The ability to do site grading with corridor feature lines is amazing and it allows me to grade a site so much faster then just using feature lines and grading groups.  But if I cannot edit a feature line in anyway without loosing my feature line, then this functionality is useless.

Thank you very much for your response and it really helped me to run a good trial to see if there is a solution, but unfortunately this still appears to be a much deeper issue within the program that apparently Autodesk cannot figure out.

[jameshitt]

"But if I cannot edit a feature line in anyway without loosing my feature line, then this functionality is useless."

Exactly.

I understand Autodesk is having a difficult time reproducing the problem, but integrity would seem to dictate that they either stop touting "Feature Lines as Corridor Baselines and Targets" as a function, or at least provide a bold red caveat in the product description.

(But really, come on...all this time--years by now--that this problem has been around and you guys can't reproduce it? I assume you must have staff dedicated to these things. Would it help if some of us would send you some samples of the offending templates based on acad.dwt? Seriously. For people experiencing the problem, it is persistently reproducible. Maybe a comparison of offending templates could glean a thread for you to start pulling?)

@wpagl452 

[C3D_TomR]

@ODO18 

This definitely sounds like a very frustrating issue. Have you created a support ticket with Autodesk? Since you have a very specific workflow that duplicates the issue every time, that would really assist the support and development teams with tracking the issue to its source. I highly encourage you to take that step if you have not yet done so. Here’s a link that explains how/where to submit a technical support ticket. 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/customer-service/account-management/users-software/support-options/we...

[ODO18]

C3D_TomR

I cannot do a ticket.  I follow the prompt and it says under email and phone "Not offered for non-subscribers".  I believe I have had this problem before when I had an issue.  Autodesk seems to dedicate our IT guy as our representative for these issues but our IT is not an end user.  If you want END USERS, you know the people actually using the product, to be able to help your development teams figure out what is causing these issues, then maybe make your customer service a little more transparent.  I am the End User Representative for our company that is tasked with evaluating the next versions of software and trying to determine how (or if) to implement it into our workflow.  We as a Company are still working off of 2017, but I have 2019 on my computer for evaluating and it is not my recommendation to upgrade until this is fixed.

Thank you

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know if Civil 3D 2020 fixes this "known issue'? that Autodesk has not resolved for 4 plus years now? I'm migrating my team this month and curious if it will be resolved. 

[vaughan.giles7AGEV]

Starting my C3D 2020 model from scratch.... I built a corridor from an alignment, went well... extended it with featurelines and somewhere things went from bad to worse.

I closed my model, came in today, opened it up and discovered that not only have my alignments disappeared but also my feature lines deleted themselves.

Two days of work - gone. I even saved superseded versions of my model and when I opened those as well, same problem. Different points of unexpected deletion which appears to have happened automatically.

I'm certain it has something to do with the moving of sites but I could not reproduce the result directly by using the previous methods shown on this thread.

Potential Issues?

• C3D in-built issues? Can't undo to retrieve missing info.
• Issue relating with corridors / feature lines?
• Issue with network? Who knows?
• Coding issue?

All I know is that my model is destroyed and I'm now over budget. Extremely frustrating situation.

[Anonymous]

I have stopped using custom feature lines and so far we have not had the problem here for a while. Just using the OOTB feature lines. We are using 2020 though and I haven't heard any grumbling about them for the guys.

I believe something in the process of creating the custom feature lines corrupts the lines and then trashes all of them.

[vaughan.giles7AGEV]

I found what the problem was.

The error is directly linked with using corridors. I restarted my model without corridors and just used featurelines and didn't have a problem.

Something about the use of corridors and sites together which caused my issues. The WHY remains unanswered and really limits my future inputs if I can't use corridor models.

[jameshitt]

@wpagl452As frustrating as the problem is, what just tops it all is Autodesk's inability to genuinely own up to their shortcomings.

On the page linked below, Autodesk writes, "Horizontal baselines used in corridors can be alignments or feature lines."

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/civil-3d/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2018/ENU/Civi...

Now considering the catastrophic effect and widespread nature of the problem in question, and granting that Autodesk is finding it difficult to impossible to reproduce (leaving aside my actual misgivings about this), at the very least, it would be a palliative and restore some of our faith in Autodesk's integrity and good will if they would add an addendum to the above linked page on "Horizontal Baselines" indicating (boldly) that feature lines being used as corridor baselines has been re-classified as an undocumented function; i.e. they are unstable and unpredictable, so use at your own risk.

Absent this, unaware users are being led into a trap that could cost them dearly (for example, see the @vaughan.giles7AGEV post above).

Autodesk has no business touting this as a "feature".

[ODO18]

Exactly that is my main issue is that they keep advertising it.  I have also reached out to these Autodesk "promotors" asking them to stop promoting this function due to the error and the responses I have gotten are "Look nothing is ever perfect and if Autodesk tells me to push a function then I push it". 

I have recreated the issue several times with every "solution" someone suggests (including the one where the feature line is not on a SITE) and I have sent the file the Autodesk a while back and they said ti is a known issue and they are working on it.  That is all I can do.

As much work/production/profits that companies have probably lost at this point with this issue I am surprised someone has not started some kind of class action.  It would be in Autodesk's best interests from a liability standpoint to either not advertise this as a function or like you said put a warning with it about the issue.

But I am just glad there are enough people out there now with this issue that maybe eventually they may start caring, because back in 2017 when I first had the issue when the feature was new nobody knew what I was talking about.

[C3D_TomR]

@ODO18 

You mentioned something about corridors in your reply. Would you mind posting a Screencast recording showing how you are able to duplicate the issue? You can download the program here: 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/search-result/caas/simplecontent/content/download-autodesk-screencast...

I recorded a video using feature lines as baselines in a corridor and adding PVIs to the feature lines. I wasn't able to cause the feature lines to disappear after an audit so I must be doing something different. I've posted my recording for you to view and see what's different.

Feature Line as Baseline in Corridor Test for Disappearing Feature Lines

I've also attached to this message the drawing I used for the recording. The EG surface in the drawing is auto generated using an app so nothing proprietary there.