Did You Know?

[wfberry]

The National Institute of Standards and Technology and the National Geodetic Survey (NGS), National Ocean Service (NOS), National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), Department of Commerce (DOC) announces a decision to deprecate the use of the “U.S. survey foot” on December 31, 2022. 

Just wondering if any of my USA constituents have been following this?

Bill

[ToddRogers-WPM]

Really? So what does this mean? Is everyone going to International Foot?

[mzjensen]

@ToddRogers-WPM - yes, it looks like the International Foot will be used and referred to simply as a "foot".

https://www.nist.gov/pml/us-surveyfoot

[ToddRogers-WPM]

Well that's not going to cause a heap of trouble 😒

[ToddRogers-WPM]

Thanks for this info @wfberry and @mzjensen !!

[AllenJessup]

---

@ToddRogers-WPM wrote:

Well that's not going to cause a heap of trouble 😒

---

Oh. But it's supposed to be a great time and money saver <LINK>

I smell another debacle like NY changing to Metric for six years and then changing back to Imperial. We had to convert all our projects that weren't a about to be constructed to Metric and then do the same when they went back to Imperial.

They  only talk about how it will be a time and cost saving and get rid of confusion. But they never mention how much time and confusion it will CAUSE!!

[AllenJessup]

Thanks for letting us know Bill, @wfberry .

Deprecate! How much did we pay for that word?

[jmayo-EE]

Thx Bill!

[Joe-Bouza]

Hi Allen

I entered the field at about the time of the metric debacle. I knew it was doomed to fail. the company I worked for called  company to find metric scales and the person on the other end of the phone said:

"Sure, we have metric scales... we have both kind - 6-inch and 12-inch!"

right then I knew metric wasnt going anywhere.

[AllenJessup]

Hey Joe,

Yeah. Did you ever see the look you'd get in the field trying to tell the contractor that it' supposed to be a 300mm pipe? It's not a complete analogy since the Survey Foot doesn't affect construction much. The point here is that people who deal with this are supposed to know what units to use. I had to learn. Every Surveyor I know had to learn.

Typical governmental response. "Oh. The poor babies don't know what to do. We'll pass a law!" I had to learn how to deal with units and understand what ramifications they had. i.e. Links in a chain were just short of 8" long. So the measurements in links and chains are ±0.33' at best.

For those with a lot of time on their hands or an insatiable thirst for knowledge on units. I've attached my notes on the subject. BTW. The County I work in still measures the Right-of-Way widths in Rods.

[AllenJessup]

This sounds scary. From https://www.nist.gov/pml/us-surveyfoot/frequently-asked-questions-faqs

Q. Will the previous U.S. survey foot unit conversion factors be maintained? 
A. Approximate decimal SI equivalents for measures commonly given in U.S. survey feet and
exact equivalents for the foot that will be adopted after December 31, 2022 will be
published near to this date and maintained in NIST SP 811, The NIST Guide for the use of
the International System of Units.

So this is going to be easier HOW?

The Survey Foot is going away. But it's going to be redefined approximately and the International Foot is going to redefined exactly.

[Neilw_05]

Here in Arizona it would be a good thing. The state uses the international foot for it's standard but some surveyors use US Feet by default so it has created problems when working with data from the 2 sources.

Maybe a better solution is for each state to choose a standard based on it's historical data and then require all surveys to use those units.

[wfberry]

Allen:

I received my first taste of measuring acres when I was quite young.  Back in those days farmers had a Government tobacco base which meant you could not raise more acreage than you were alloted.  I helped my dad measure for the government.  Easy peasy, 10 chains long and 1 chain wide = 1 Acre.

Hence 1 Chain (66') by 10 Chains (660')= 1 Acre.   43,560 SF. & now you know the rest of the story.

Bill

[_Hathaway]

My neck of the woods is all US Survey feet.  I think this change is a good thing but I am not entirely certain how I am going to utilize the all of my existing GPS data. If it weren't for the H and V datum shift I could probably just adjust all my GPS projects to use the new foot and move on.   But, this combined with the new horizontal and vertical datum will make for coordinate fun and confusion for many in a few years.

[wfberry]

Neil:

I wish I could define it more but all I would do is paint myself into a corner.  The best explanation I can give it that it boils down to GPS surveying will be more accurate.  Or so I am told.

Bill

[_Hathaway]

It won't be more accurate, it will be more consistent since there will no longer be 2 definitions of 'foot'.

[AllenJessup]

---

@wfberry wrote:

Hence 1 Chain (66') by 10 Chains (660')= 1 Acre.   43,560 SF. & now you know the rest of the story.

---

Bill,

I have a mental block on remembering the square feet in an acre. I always do 66 X 660.

[AllenJessup]

Bill,

What @_Hathaway  said. It can't be more accurate. All GPS is measured in one big Cartesian system and then transformed into whatever system you're using (within the limits of the program).

[rl_jackson]

@Neilw_05 the problem is that AZ and another 4 or 5 states decided to legislative change from US survey foot to IF. That is exactly why most surveyors still use it. The historical data stems from BLM surveys done in the ~1850s. This holds true for all states with a couple of exceptions in areas. 

[_Hathaway]

The timing is perfect.  We are getting an entirely new horizontal and vertical datum, literally everywhere.  That is the exact time in which the US Survey Foot should no longer be used.  It will be painful and confusing as all datum changes are.  I am all for it!