Civil 3d 2018 Feature lines disappear

[b.stark]

Not sure if this is coincidence or cause, but I have having a problem where all of the feature lines in my drawing will change to zero length at zero elevation for no apparent reason. The drawings that I have seen it on lately are drawings that I am using a feature line to build a corridor. All feature lines will behave like this even if they have no corridor attached.

Is this a common problem, that Autodesk just let out there knowing that I am going to lose hours of design work when it decides to surprise me with disappearing work?

[kevincurrey]

I'm having the same problem, and have a case open with Autodesk support. @Mike_Hurtado has been on it.

What I've found that I THINK might be the culprit is "phantom" alignments get created when you add a feature line as a baseline. They aren't visibile, they don't show up in toolspace, but they are selectable with the Select All command. Those alignments seem to exist in the same site as the feature line it's based on, which I think is what's causing the funky interaction with the feature lines. You may be able to see them if you run the command for a new surface profile.

I have a quasi-fix that is a nuclear option, and probably not recommended. But it's the only way I could clean up my drawing enough that I could get my feature lines to take elevations again. For me and my complex drawing, this was better than totally starting over.

1. Delete any corridor baselines that reference feature lines.

2. Make a new layer (I called mine ALIGN-BAD)

3. Freeze the layer your normal alignments are in, then do a Ctrl-A (Select All), you will probably find multiple alignments in your properties window. Change their layer to the ALIGN-BAD layer.

4. Freeze all drawing layers except ALIGN-BAD. Select All again, then erase. Purge/Audit

5. Use some other method for grading off of your feature lines. Hope that Autodesk comes back with better recommendations soon. If you're positive that you're done making changes to the geometry or elevations of the feature line, it MIGHT be safe to add them back. I THINK they're safe if you don't change them. It's only when I've started changing things that the weird behavior kicks in.

[kevincurrey · Accepted solution]

I have confirmation from Autodesk now that this is a bug, and is present in versions 2017-2019. Defect ID CIVIL-23284.

The problem occurs whenever you make any changes to a feature line that is assigned as a corridor baseline. Which basically means, don't use this feature right now. I'm only using it in 3 areas in my drawing, which I know won't be changing. The rest I'm grading with a combination of feature lines and grading objects.

To clean up a drawing from phantom objects you can follow my steps above, or use this slightly easier method: 

1. Unfreeze all layers, make sure all C3D objects are set to a style that displays the object.

2. Zoom to extends

3. Select all

4. Use Shift + crossing window to de-select everything that's visible.

5. Any items still showing as selected in the properties window are phantom objects that can be erased. Delete.

6. Swear at your computer using your profanity of choice.

7. Decide on another method for grading. 

[b.stark]

Thank you for the info!!

[b.stark]

@Mike_HurtadoCan you provide any additional information about this issue?

[peter]

Thanks for posting this. It seems to have resolved the issue I was having with a file. I had several corridors which were based on future lines as baselines. I deleted those and the phantom objects using the method you suggested and my feature lines seem to be stable again.  Previously they would disappear if I made any changes to the file then saved and reopened.

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@kevincurrey wrote:

I have confirmation from Autodesk now that this is a bug, and is present in versions 2017-2019. Defect ID CIVIL-23284.

The problem occurs whenever you make any changes to a feature line that is assigned as a corridor baseline. Which basically means, don't use this feature right now. I'm only using it in 3 areas in my drawing, which I know won't be changing. The rest I'm grading with a combination of feature lines and grading objects.

To clean up a drawing from phantom objects you can follow my steps above, or use this slightly easier method: 

1. Unfreeze all layers, make sure all C3D objects are set to a style that displays the object.

2. Zoom to extends

3. Select all

4. Use Shift + crossing window to de-select everything that's visible.

5. Any items still showing as selected in the properties window are phantom objects that can be erased. Delete.

6. Swear at your computer using your profanity of choice.

7. Decide on another method for grading. 

---

[b.stark]

I would like to nominate the thread to NOT be marked as having a solution provided. That method will take care of the phantom objects but does not address the issue of not being able to reliably use feature lines to build corridors.

This is apparently a known issue that is apparently not being addressed by AUTODESK..... however they do get out that next years version out. I just dont understand the need to keep pumping out bugged versions over getting a version right.

[peter]

I completely agree that this is not a solved issue. I'm just happy that someone found a reasonable workaround and made me aware of the problem with creating corridors from feature lines. I started using it because it was extremely convenient, however, clearly Autodesk didn't do their job on this one.


I completely share your frustration with Autodesk pushing out new versions every year that are full of bugs. I don't start using a new version until the next version is released for this very reason. I find the new releases aren't really stable until they've issued at least 2 service packs.

[jjohnson]

Thank you to everyone on this thread, I've been using feature lines to create corridors for the past year but this hasn't started happening until my last 2 or 3 projects.  It's good to know I'm not the only one cursing at my computer and Autodesk because of non-vetted deployments of Civil 3D.  I'm going back to flowline profiles...

Does everyone else get the ghosted grading objects and parcels as well?  None of which were created in the last drawing I had problems with but they somehow appear by themselves.

[wcraig7N2P9]

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@kevincurrey wrote:

I have confirmation from Autodesk now that this is a bug, and is present in versions 2017-2019. Defect ID CIVIL-23284.

The problem occurs whenever you make any changes to a feature line that is assigned as a corridor baseline. Which basically means, don't use this feature right now. I'm only using it in 3 areas in my drawing, which I know won't be changing. The rest I'm grading with a combination of feature lines and grading objects.

To clean up a drawing from phantom objects you can follow my steps above, or use this slightly easier method: 

1. Unfreeze all layers, make sure all C3D objects are set to a style that displays the object.

2. Zoom to extends

3. Select all

4. Use Shift + crossing window to de-select everything that's visible.

5. Any items still showing as selected in the properties window are phantom objects that can be erased. Delete.

6. Swear at your computer using your profanity of choice.

7. Decide on another method for grading. 

---

I discovered I had this problem after many hours of, now wasted, work. I was happy when I found your suggested solution. However, this fix seems to delete my pipe networks too. Which I do not want to happen.

Any suggestions? Or is there a real fix yet?

[ODO18]

Does anyone have an official link to this issue where we can get updates on when it will be fixed?  Our company has been struggling with this issue since 2017 and we have not upgraded since then until this issue was resolved.  While I am glad that Autodesk is finally aware of the issue, we have been posting about this issue for almost 3 years now and everyone always acted like we were crazy.  I am glad other people are finally starting to catch up.

To me this issue is a non-starter for upgrading.  The biggest benefit of 2017 was the ability to use corridors on site grading and you cannot even do it.  We lose our corridor feature lines if we change anything at all about the feature line, i.e. Add a PVI, Delete a PVI, Move a PVI, Change the Elevation of a PVI, etc.  To us it is absolutely ridiculous to even have a product like this.  The whole point in corridor grading and 3D grading for that matter, is the dynamic nature of it.  But if you cannot change it after you have created it then what good is it?  It is not good at all.  We are still grading sites with offsets for curbing because this issue has caused our company so many problems and lost revenue.  Your talking about complete sites graded out and then we need to change one thing and we cannot because the feature lines are gone.

I am glad that Autodesk is FINALLY caught on to this MAJOR issue, but they need to hurry up and fix it.  Three years is a ridiculous amount of time for them to finally figure out it is a problem and the number of posts my Company has made to get this resolved that has gone unanswered in ridiculous.

[opybase]

Today I opened my drawing only to find all my FL gone. Yesterday I moved some PI in a featureline used as a corridor baseline. Not aware this couldn't be done I worked all day in the drawing. Now I must recreate all work after that.

I must say I really really hate autodesk right now for this. Very frustrating. Been using Civil 3d since 2009 but I've only used alignments as baselines in corridor until now.

Along with problems like:

-elevation points sometimes randomly dissappearing in FL.

-gradings that totally destroys your drawings when they keep crashing, causing lines not being able to erase.

..this is yet another one BIG issue with this program. Why all fancy grading and corridor functions when they clearly not working??

And these problems keeps being ignored for years and years. Not a word in these threads by someone in postion at autodesk to update us on their intentions to fix this or what to expect.

I have had major problem in projects because of this.

Btw im using civil 3d 2019 and all of these old problems are still there.

/Very frustrated swedish user bad at english.

[peter]

Fortunately/unfortunately this is a known issue, but to my knowledge Autodesk hasn't done anything about it. I spent many hours putting together a grading plan for a 40 acre site development only to have my file corrupted 3 times before I finally figured out what the issue was. Using feature lines as corridor baselines doesn't work and I avoid this feature altogether now. Too bad because it is a pretty cool idea, just completely nonfunctional. Just another example of the love/hate relationship that I think most of us have with civil 3D.

[opybase]

This is exactly how I feel. You just sort of have to deal with it by yourself when it comes to civil 3d.
In my case one of the things that's makes me the most angry is the fact that Autodesk keeps on having this function of featurelines as baselines aware that its going to mess your drawing up, without informing users about it. Letting everyone figure it out by themselves. It´s mean.

[DAlvaradoX247X]

So AutoDesk knows this is a known issue and has no solution? In general this no solution BS is wasting me countless hours and a lot of frustration. AutoDesk please fix these bugs I need solutions now not with the next roll out which will no doubt have it's own issues.  Maybe my next design needs to happen in InRoads and much more stable platform. 

[Anonymous]

Just to confirm that I'm having same issues with my drawings.

Civil 3D 2019.2. version.

[ODO18]

Michael,

I think you sum it up best..."It's mean".  Agreed.  Either fix it or take the feature away, but do not let people continue to waste time and money realizing this major issue on their own.  I wonder if everyone on this post and similar posts about this issue sent Autodesk a bill for the time lost because of this issue then maybe they would be more motivated to do something?

[fcernst]

This was my original Civil 3D Idea, and maybe the first one ever implemented from the Idea Station..I wanted to leverage the power of Corridors in site design.

What I found after a couple stressful situations close to deadlines when these corruption symptoms began occuring, was that making sure every featureline in the entire drawing that is being used as a baseline was moved to Site/NONE, then the drawings stabilized.

I mentioned this to AutoDESK but haven't heard of a fix being implemented. I'm sure it comes from the Corridor heritage of baselines using Alignments, and how Alignments interact with Sites.

[ODO18]

Are you saying that moving all feature lines to Site/NONE fixed the problem? I thought we had tried that but I will try that scenario again if you say it fixed your problem. I am assuming that you move them all to NONE before you apply any of them to a corridor?

[fcernst]

I try make sure now that I start with Site/NONE, but sometimes I still have to move them if i forget.

Make sure you get every featureline used as a baseline in the entire drawing..

I wouldn't call it a fix, because we still want to be able to use Site interaction logic with featurelines that are used as baselines at some point.

I'm in 2020 now..