AutoCAD recommended File Storage Help (On premise/ SharePoint / OneDrive)

AutoCAD recommended File Storage Help (On premise/ SharePoint / OneDrive)

AC205
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Message 1 of 16

AutoCAD recommended File Storage Help (On premise/ SharePoint / OneDrive)

AC205
Participant
Participant

Hey there,

Just wondering what the recommended Autodesk file storage system is for AutoCAD?

Currently have lots of projects with very large drawings which contain xrefs / data shortcuts to other files which can also be large in size.

Currently we have tried 3 different solutions each with their own set of issues:

On Premise Windows Server

Originally, we had all our files stored locally on our server on premise. This worked with no issues when users were in the office however when users were working remotely there was significant performance issues mainly due to large files being transferred back and fourth.

SharePoint

Currently we have moved all our projects to SharePoint. We have tried the SharePoint network drive mapping option but ran into issues again when working with large files with data shortcuts or xrefs a lot of times the drawing would lockup/hang completely.

SharePoint / OneDrive

We currently are using SharePoint and OneDrive for our main AutoCAD file storage. This allows us to sync all the files locally to the staff’s computers which significantly helps when working with large files with data shortcuts and xrefs. However we are constantly experiencing issues with OneDrive not syncing files properly, files going disappearing/going missing and other syncing issues.

Personally I’d like to get away from OneDrive altogether but not sure what the best practices are. I would prefer to use SharePoint network drives or bring everything back on premise.

Let me know your thoughts/suggestions.

Thanks everyone.

 

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Message 2 of 16

rl_jackson
Mentor
Mentor

Depending on Company size (in-house IT staff) you might consider Autodesk VAULT


Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI

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Message 3 of 16

AC205
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We are under 50 staff so don't think Vault is practical for this size.

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Message 4 of 16

rkmcswain
Mentor
Mentor
@AC205 wrote:

Just wondering what the recommended Autodesk file storage system is for AutoCAD?

Currently have lots of projects with very large drawings which contain xrefs / data shortcuts to other files which can also be large in size.

Currently we have tried 3 different solutions each with their own set of issues:

On Premise Windows Server

Originally, we had all our files stored locally on our server on premise. This worked with no issues when users were in the office however when users were working remotely there was significant performance issues mainly due to large files being transferred back and fourth.

Probably not practical in many cases, but another option: Leave the workstation at the office (in same building as the 'local' data), and use a second PC to RDP to it, via a VPN connection.  The second PC can be just about anything running Windows that is capable of running RDP, does not have to be 'workstation quality'.  The workstation will be on the same LAN as the heavy data, and the only thing going back and forth over the WAN/VPN is the changed pixels and keyboard/mouse input.

 

 

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Message 5 of 16

dgladfelter
Collaborator
Collaborator

As you're already using cloud storage with OneDrive, I assume you do not have a definitive requirement for files to be on-premises?

 

While the AutoCAD team has expanded support for major cloud storage providers (OneDrive, Box, Dropbox, etc.) in recent years, that integration is only designed for "vanilla" AutoCAD. Working in Civil 3D, specifically Data Shortcuts, introduces complexities the AutoCAD cloud storage integrations really were not designed for.

 

That said, the solutions that will work best with Civil 3D include:

  • Vault: It's technically designed to work with Civil 3D, but I very rarely recommend Vault for Civil 3D users as the overhead for getting it setup and maintaining it is steep. There are some very specific use cases, such as a contractual need for everything to be on-premise, where it becomes an option, but apart from incredibily specific use-cases, I stay away from it for Civil 3D.
  • Remote Desktop: This one is perhaps the simpliest to implement. Basically keep your Civil 3D workstation in the office (where the data is located), and then use Remote Desktop, Chrome Remote Desktop, TeamViewer, etc to remotely access that machine from a second (lesser powered) machine at home.
  • Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI): Services like Workspot offer an experience similar to the Remote Desktop option outlines above. The difference is you more-or-less rent a Civil 3D workstation from a VDI provider, and then access that Virtual Desktop from a cheap computer. For smaller companies, this can be a cost effective solution.
  • BIM 360 Docs and BIM 360 Design: So far as cloud storage is concerned, the only cloud storage solution designed to work with Data Shortcuts is Autodesk's own BIM 360. The basic solution works a lot like Sharepoint/OneDrive in the sense that you install a small utility (Desktop Connector) on your computer, and it syncs files between the cloud and your local machine. It handles file locking when multiple people are working on a project. The nice thing is, with BIM 360 you're working on a local copy of your DWGs, so there's no network lag when saving DWGs and doing that sort of thing. That said, like any cloud storage, it will take time to sync your changes back to the cloud, so others working on your project might not see updates in realtime.

 



Donnie Gladfelter

Virtual Design Manager, Dewberry

The CAD Geek Blog

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Message 6 of 16

AC205
Participant
Participant

Thank you kindly, BIM 360 sounds like a practical solution here.

 

Do you know if it is roughly $1200/year for entire company or is there user /file limit?

 

Then would we essentially be moving all our files from SharePoint into Autodesk's cloud (BIM 360) ?

 

Thanks again.

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Message 7 of 16

tcorey
Mentor
Mentor

Your cost estimate for BIM 360 Design is way low. It's $945 per user/per year if you sign up ten users or fewer. 10 users is $869.50 per user/per year. 25 users would be $781.20 per user/per year. There are 100 and 500 packs, too.



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Platinum Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
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Message 8 of 16

dgladfelter
Collaborator
Collaborator

Based on the little you've shared; BIM 360 would be toward the top of my list for your use-case.

 

While a good solution, I must warn you, the BIM 360 terminology can be confusing.

 

Your Civil 3D users would need two licenses; BIM 360 Docs and BIM 360 Design. BIM 360 Docs gives you unlimited file storage (including unlimited file versions), file sharing, and file viewing, whereas BIM 360 Design is what makes Civil 3D Data Shortcuts and Revit Worksharing work. Basically, everyone in your company would need a BIM 360 Docs license, but only Civil 3D users would need the BIM 360 Design license.

 

In getting started with BIM 360, you would begin by creating projects inside BIM 360, and then migrating your data from wherever it exists (Sharepoint) today to those BIM 360 projects. There are several strategies for doing this. As such, while you can purchase BIM 360 direct from Autodesk, I would highly recommend working with your reseller to identify and develop the strategy that is best for you.

 

With Autodesk's business model shift to named users, BIM 360 Docs might provide you a way to reduce your AEC Collection/Civil 3D licenses. Reason for that is, BIM 360 offers web-based viewing and markup tools for Autodesk file formats (like DWG). As such, people like Project Managers who you might give Civil 3D so they can open and review drawings, could possibly achieve everything they need to with a simple BIM 360 Docs license (no BIM 360 Design license would be needed for them as they wouldn't be using Civil 3D).

 

With regard to pricing, I'm honestly not sure what things are currently priced at. That said, the more licenses you purchase, the cheaper the per-user cost becomes. With that in mind, I would be sure to ask my reseller where the price breaks are. Sometimes it can be adventageous to buy more seats than you need as the per-user cost could be lower. For example, if you're a 45-person company, it can sometimes be cheaper to buy 50 licenses than it would be to by 45 licenses. 

 

 



Donnie Gladfelter

Virtual Design Manager, Dewberry

The CAD Geek Blog

Facebook |Twitter |YouTube |LinkedIn



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Message 9 of 16

AC205
Participant
Participant

Yikes ok so that solution can be quite pricey by the sounds of it...

 

Is there any non autodesk 3rd party software that works similar to this that anyone is aware of?

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Message 10 of 16

rkmcswain
Mentor
Mentor

@AC205  - who is your Autodesk reseller? You should be having this conversation with them first IMO. They work with dozens if not hundreds of users like yourself. Granted, they may lean towards an Autodesk solution, but if they any integrity, they will discuss all options. After all, you are their customer and they should help you obtain the best solution that fits your budget.

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Message 11 of 16

AC205
Participant
Participant

@izzylohI see you were in a similar situation and you mentioned you ended up going with Autodesk Vault.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/civil-3d-forum/c3d-and-bim-360-disappointing/td-p/9532591

Just wondering how this is still working out for you and if you or anyone else could provide a little more insight on your approach. Thanks in advance 🙂

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Message 12 of 16

AllenJessup
Mentor
Mentor

Yes. OneDrive is awful. When we stared working from home I synced all our project file to OneDrive. When I opened it from home. All of the folders were there but NONE of the files. Many other problems. I only use it as backup.

Our IT is begining to roll out OnBase. But I don't have any experince with it yet.

Allen Jessup
CAD Manager - Designer
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Message 13 of 16

izzyloh
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Hi AC205,

 

Vault Workgroup has been OK - better than OneDrive/SharePoint (at least at the state it was in last March - if there have been improvements I have not experienced them as all our CAD projects are generally off SharePoint).

 

There are a number of issues, mostly user lack of training / familiarity with the software. The below is based on C3D 2021:

 

  1. The Vault Ribbon does not work well for checking files in. The software back-end mechanism to check-in files often fails or throws errors regarding XREFs that don't make much sense. The resolution is to ONLY use the Vault Toolspace integration.
  2. The Vaulting of sheet sets can be error prone as well. A lot of "turning the SSM Vault connection on/off" (in short) to get updates to stick. Ultimately an inconvenience vs a fatal flaw.

  3. DREFs work... but there is the annoying nuance of needing the source drawing files showing in the Toolspace tree for them to be DREF-able. This is just more poor programming vs a fatal flaw, but my gosh did we think it was a fatal flaw until we found the solution on the forums somewhere.
  4. And more like the above / etc...

In summary, Vault begrudgingly gets the job done but users need to be trained on all the nuances to get it to work (e.g., don't use the ribbon for check-in... log in to vault only using the toolspace... SSM must be open/closed for subset creation to check-in... etc). If you plan to go the Vault route, my advice is that you'll need to have a Vault steward in your office: someone who is responsible for training and troubleshooting, and knows their way around server management (at least a little).  If the previously mentioned are not possible, link up with an IT group who can provide some sys-admin management services (what we did), or a reseller who is savvy. We've started working with our reseller to get Vault admin training to try and smooth out the kinks and get our userbase a little more comfortable with Vault (myself included). Our reseller is really good since they have a lot of ex-consultant folk who developed Vaulted projects, so if you need help in that department please feel to DM me for references.

 

AC205 and I spoke a little via DM, and thought it would be good to add this exchange to the public forum for everyone's benefit: If I had to summarize it, Vault is essentially a server you VPN into to manually push/pull file updates.

 

My anticipated plans moving forward for anyone curious: the company will keep Vault running for at least 2 years (May 2022), but probably in the winter of 2021 I will be checking in again on BIM360 since that seems like where Autodesk is putting it's efforts. Luckily, to rip a project out of Vault and back to a traditional server is not much trouble at all.

 

One more thing - since we deployed Vault, two other software/hardware solutions we're ID'ed that looked good. However, as a small company we don't have the resources to pursue them at this time; they are Natsumi and Panzura.

Izzad "Izzy" Loh, PE | Active Transportation, Multimodal Corridors, & Municipal Site Design using Civil 3D
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Message 14 of 16

AC205
Participant
Participant

Thank you kindly for that info.

 

So it seems to me like there isn't any great solutions out there yet to support Remote users.

 

I think working with SharePoint/OneDrive which is technically free with an O365 license(Which all our users have) is still the most practical solution.

 

This allows our users to work off all files locally which significantly improves opening times etc.

 

However we will have to continue to deal with the OneDrive sync issues overall.

 

I have a call tomorrow with our AutoDesk reseller to discuss other options but not going to hold my breath on this one :(.

 

If anyone else has any other recommendations please let me know.

 

Basically need a solution for users that work from home to not have to wait 20+ minutes to open drawings over the VPN etc.

 

 

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Message 15 of 16

izzyloh
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Of course! Something I should mention/clarify is that our in office server has terrible upload speed (we're not in a Class A building with fiber) so we went with a cloud server. The VPN to pull files from the the cloud server (vs our office server) is substantially faster. Also because Vault is "demand" syncing (vs automatic, like accessing a windows file server via VPN) there is little to no slow down during the actual CAD work. 

 

The lovely folks over at Toole Design have put up their CAD best practices for SharePoint publicly if you'd like to give them a peak to see how yours compare. My companies is similar, but we put all support files onto SharePoint as well. 

 

https://tooledesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/CADD-File-Management-Tips-for-Working-Remotely.pd...

https://tooledesign.com/preparedness/

Also, if you haven't already, I recommend you get all your user's SharePoint/OneDrive sync directory standardized:

 

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/civil-3d-forum/data-shortcuts-through-onedrive/m-p/9513699#M425739 

 

Good luck!

Izzad "Izzy" Loh, PE | Active Transportation, Multimodal Corridors, & Municipal Site Design using Civil 3D
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Message 16 of 16

Anonymous
Not applicable

if your firm also does inspection of the projects, and you're looking for another Autodesk construction management platform you might look at Autodesk Build - https://constructionblog.autodesk.com/autodesk-build/ 

 

I was told by an Autodesk rep that there will be (Build won't be officially out until February)  different tiers of cloud storage depending on your license. Note that this is separate from BIM 360 Design, but sounds like a powerful tool for construction and could presumably be integrated with BIM 360 Design if there's value in that.