Alignment Labels on Control Plan - Rand - Opinions?

[AllenJessup]

I work with a very competent Engineer who knows very little AutoCAD and no Civil 3D at all. He doesn't want to know. He's happy to draw plans with Lines, Polylines, Arcs, Circles, dumb Leaders (line and solid arrow) and DText. He usually even draws his own Hatched (composed of previously mentioned entities. He produces very good looking plans but they're a nightmare to work with.

He leave anything that goes beyond that to me.

He asked me to create a control plan showing HCL, Survey Traverse and specific points on a culvert being replaced. I created an Alignment from his lines and arcs, Labeled the Major Stations and created points along the alignment by setting them automatically at geometry points.

The way my template is set up I ended up with points like 5001, 1+00 - BEG and 5006, 3+60.43 - PCC. I got the redline back and he wants it all changed to STA. 1+00 BEGIN H.C.L and STA. 3+60.43 P.C.C. CURVE NO. 1/2.

So I either have to develope some complicated point label styles of just freeze the points in the layout and use MText labels. I think it's a lot of work for no value. Those are pretty standard abbreviations in the area. I've been using them for nearly 35 year. He obviously understood what they all meant. All the Surveyors and layout companies I've worked with would know what they mean.

When I try to point out that the way the software works is that you're using the point, alignments and linework in multiple layouts. So every change you make will be reflected on those too. He says that only causes problems.

Is it much to do about nothing? Should I just resort to MText to label the points? I understand that the software is taking some of the art out of producing plans. But I'm more interested in conveying the information accurately  and using the power of the program to eliminate typos by using the label styles rather than retyping everything on each layout. Am I crazy or what?

BTW. I've worked with him for 25 years. So this isn't anything new. But this time it just seemed to be very excessive.

[wfberry]

Allen:

I feel your pain but (as I read your notes) it appears you don't have much choice.  Perhaps leave your labels on a NO-Plot layer and force feed "HIS" text on top.

Bill

[AllenJessup]

HI Bill,

I'll probably do something like that. No-plot layer or No Display Style. I don't have a problem standing up to him on some things. This just seems like meaningless work But not too hard to do. I'll probably never get him to agree to the usefulness of using anything than dumb text. 

Thanks 

[Joe-Bouza]

He never go for a table would he?

[AllenJessup]

Thanks Joe. But I already have Tables.

[jeff_rivers]

With your long work relationship with him, only you know for sure.  I would stand up to him and explain it as a quality issue.  

Does he want his plans to be the best possible plans he (and you) can produce, with the fewest errors?  

Does he understand that every time he or you or any human types something in, there is a risk of mis-typing a letter or digit, and thus introducing an error in the plans?

Does he get that the software can label things for him automatically, and without this risk of introducing an error?  Does he want to spend his time hunting down errors, errors that could easily have been avoided?  What's his time worth, per hour?  What's yours?  

There's a tradeoff: He will have to let go of seeing the labels for this or other things exactly to his liking.  But the thing he gets in return is knowing that every label will be 100% correct every time, with no extra work on his part or your part. Or in other words, I'd tell him that by doing it his way he is guaranteeing that there will be mistakes in there somewhere.  His process is not a quality process, it ensures that a mistake is more likely to happen than if he lets the software do it the better way.

Within reason, I know, there are other sources of errors.  But it's stupid to hold on to his old fashioned ways when there is a better way with a higher assurance of a quality product. 

[AllenJessup]

Thanks Jeff,

I've explained it all to him many times. He views it all as a hindrance to getting his project done as he wants it. He doesn't even like Xrefs. It's a shame. He's a very good engineer and his plans look great. But as cad drawings, they're a mess.

[AllenJessup]

The latest. The PI of one of the curves on the alignment happened to hit within 0.04' of a Survey Baseline Point. He complained that the symbols were overlapping. My response: A point is where a point is and you don't move them.

[tcorey]

I hope this engineer is self-employed. His refusal to continue learning makes him a liability for a company.

[AllenJessup]

Sorry. Can't help myself. It's either post or go postal. (Just kidding. If you were wondering)

Engineer to me; "Whats an RP?

Me to him; "What do you think it is"? No response. Me: "OK. You're dealing with an alignment with 2 curves. What is it?"

Him. "No idea."

I realize that there are some differences across the country and across the world. But we've both worked in the same area for over 30 years. Even if he's never been exposed to the terminology. I started in Surveying and will bet anyone given a sheet to layout an alignment will know what an RP is.

I've never created a plan with Chainage, here it's Stationing (STA). I've never labeled anything a Kerb. But I know what people are talking about when they use those terms. I know I can edit the Abbreviations in Civl to be anything I want. But...

[Joe-Bouza]

...Deep breaths, Bro...Deep Breaths....

In the end you will be happy and he will have... well I'm not sure but he will be out of your hair

[AllenJessup]

Nah. At least another 3 years to go. I just finished screaming at him because there were typo's in the Mtext labels I made - As I knew there probably be. So instead of redlining the text I had created. He redlined the point table and thought the PC really should be called the RP.

[sboon]

For a one-off scenario like this one I would probably just edit the label text for those points to match what he wants to see. 

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

[AllenJessup]

Good idea. I may revert to that. Struggling with a Table now.

[sboon]

You could also print off a screenshot of the Abbreviations tab in the Drawing Settings dialog, laminate that and affix it to his desktop - with superglue.

[AllenJessup]

Or this; http://www.directlinesoftware.com/survey.htm

[sboon]

That one's big enough to be used as wallpaper. 

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

[Joe-Bouza]

I've never seen you get ruffled before

[AllenJessup · Accepted solution]

It takes a particular type. I understand he can't quite help himself. But not only changing this just to change them. But many of the redlines "correct" correct info with incorrect and reverse what has already been changed.

I've decided it's too chancy using dumb text. So I'll develope label styles to match what he wants.

[jeff_rivers]

---

@AllenJessup wrote:

It takes a particular type. I understand he can't quite help himself. But not only changing this just to change them. But many of the redlines "correct" correct info with incorrect and reverse what has already been changed.

I've decided it's too chancy using dumb text. So I'll develope label styles to match what he wants.

---

Is he a P.E. by chance?  If so, is there anything in the code of professional conduct (or whatever PE's must adhere to) that may be pointed out to him that, by his use of sloppy techniques it has now been PROVEN to him that he has introduced what I would say are deliberate errors in his plans?

I'm not taking a shot at all other PE's out there.  But this just stands out to me that he is now deliberately shirking his responsibilities as a licensed engineer (if he is one).  

I doubt it would come to this, but I would hate to be him if ever the day came when he was on a witness stand and had to defend his practices.