Parts Builder tutorial: Outside Drop Manhole

[Anonymous]

I tried posting this question on the other Civil 3D forum, so forgive me for double posting. I am desperate since I used a days worth of work doing the Parts Builder tutorial for The Outside Drop Manhole. If I can get this custom structure to work properly  I can justify this I time spent to my boss.

Has anyone sucessfully created the outside drop manhole that is part of the Civil 3d part builder tutorial? I've worked my way thru this tutorial, but I am not sure I did it correctly. When I add this part to my profile view I do not see the outside drop pipe & elbow.  I tried rotating the structure thinking the part is not orientated corrrectly to be seen in the view, but that does not seem to be the case. If I display the part style as solid I can see the outside drop pipe & elbow, but not as If i display part as boundary.  I tried the tutorial twice, but no luck. Part Builder can be a big headache. Somebody else must have gone thru this tutorial and have gotten this to work.

C3d 2012, windows 7 64 bit, updated service pack, etc.

PG

[Anonymous]

I tried posting this question on the other Civil 3D forum, so forgive me for double posting. I am desperate since I used a days worth of work doing the Parts Builder tutorial for The Outside Drop Manhole. If I can get this custom structure to work properly  I can justify this I time spent to my boss.

Has anyone sucessfully created the outside drop manhole that is part of the Civil 3d part builder tutorial? I've worked my way thru this tutorial, but I am not sure I did it correctly. When I add this part to my profile view I do not see the outside drop pipe & elbow.  I tried rotating the structure thinking the part is not orientated corrrectly to be seen in the view, but that does not seem to be the case. If I display the part style as solid I can see the outside drop pipe & elbow, but not as If i display part as boundary.  I tried the tutorial twice, but no luck. Part Builder can be a big headache. Somebody else must have gone thru this tutorial and have gotten this to work.

C3d 2012, windows 7 64 bit, updated service pack, etc.

PG

[Anonymous]

Hi PG,

I am asking my colleagues to help you here. Please wait to see if somebody comes back with their suggestion.

Thanks,

[Anonymous]

Thank you.. Here is another question about this custom structure. Will outcoming pipe automatically be connected to the outside drop pipe of this custom structure?

PG

[SethHall]

Hi Paul-

Actually I think this is a style issue rather than a part builder issue. You mention that when displaying as a solid it displays corectly, but as a boundary it does not. I think the part is created correctly, its just the boundary option that is not working as expected. For now can you just use the solid option to display the part?

[Anonymous]

Displaying as a solid won't work in this case. This won't meet  local sewer agency cad standards. Can the outside drop pipe be adjusted to connect to the outgoing pipe with the structure as defined in the tutorial? How paramatric is this part?

I am still hoping I just didn't follow the direction on the tutrial correctly. It's hard to spot a mistake when you barely understand whats going on in the part builder envoirment.

here is a snippit of my part

I can send you pmy parts catalog if that would be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Seth,

I did notice that maybe a possible mistake in the tutorial  - Exercise 2: Defining the Manhole Geometry

Why is FTh listed twice? Should there actaully be another variable listed?  Is there anyone at Autodesk that is famiilar with this exercise?

Thanks,

PG

[SethHall]

Unfortunately I do not know who wrote these tutorials as they are now several years old. The double Fth may be a mistake, but the fact that it looks fine as a solid leads me to belive that this is constructed correctly. Can you post a screen cap of the structure displayed as a solid?

[Anonymous]

I posted an image of the part displayed as a solid yesterday in this thread. Can you see it? If not I'll try it again.

[SethHall]

I am sorry... I must have meant boundary. Don't know what I was thinking.

[Anonymous]

No Problem. I wish I understood parts builder better. I keep trying to tell myself not to give up, keep at it. It's hard to get PB answers on these forums and I understand why.

Here is what the part looks like as a boundary. Notice the outside pipe does not display. In PB enviorment the Part is configured at a "Cylider Shape". Does this mean the part can only be diplayed as a cylinder and unable to show the outeside pipes?

[Anonymous]

I've been doing some more digging and ran across this post:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Civil-3D/My-Part-Builder-Experience/td-p/3669100

THis is the same problem I am having. Another problem this post addresses is that you cannot snap to a PG geometry node using OSNAPS was the tutorial states. My workaround was to draw construction lines and snap my geometry points to these entities.

Is this a know bug in part builder?

[Anonymous]

Is there anyone at AutoDesk that can confirm that complex structures built in part builder such as the drop manhole in the tutorial cannot accurately be shown as a boundary?

Paul

[Anonymous]

I too have gone through the tutorial to build the outside drop and am experiencing the same problems.  My part shows fine in 3D but:

1. The part does not profile correctly, no matter how I have the part rotated.  I am getting just a normal looking structure but no outside drop.

2. In 3D, it is obvious that the outside drop is not connecting to any other incoming pipes.  How can we make the top invert connect to an incoming pipe?  Also, note that the part shows the correct sump elevation in profile view but not in 3D model view.

I do not understand Part Builder very well, but maybe the section views that are used for showing the part in profile view are controlled with work planes.  Later I will try to create another work plane perpendicular to the planes created in the tutorial and see if that helps it to show correctly in profile view.

Are there any more resources still available for learning to use Part Builder?  Many of the old links in forums are broken that talk about useful video lessons.

[Anonymous]

Hi Esteac,

Civil 3d will not show the structure as designed in part builder as a boundary nor will it be able to connect incoming pipe. I found this out after going thru the tutorial just as you have. It sure would have been nice if Autodesk told you this up front at the start of the tutorial.

PG

[Anonymous]

Paul,

Right, agreed. It defeats the purpose of having a structure like that if it doesn't have the functionality.

Did you ever find a workaround for showing drop inlets in profile view without simply drawing polylines?  The polylines obviously are clunky and do not move well with any changes to the pipe network.

Eric Turner

[Anonymous]

Eric,

I have created a label style that uses a block that is inserted at sump elevation to show an outside drop. It's not the best solution because the outside drop pipe block will not match to the incoming pipe becuase the slope of the incoming pipe can vary. (I hope that made sense?)  See screen shot below & attached drawing (v. 2012). Maybe you can work with this and find a better solution?

Paul

[Anonymous]

Paul,

First off, this is a very genius workaround.  Well done.  

Looking at the file a bit, is the block FW_DROP something that you create for every outside drop you have?  I ask because the drop does not appear to update to the new pipe location when the incoming pipe invert is changed.  I believe this is what you were referring to in your previous post.  I will tinker with it some during the rest of the week and see what we can come up with.

Thanks!

Eric

[Anonymous]

Eric,
Thanks...You are correct in the fact you might have to have a block or label style for every outside drop manhole. Too bad you can't use dynamic blocks within labels. Good luck, I would love to see what you come up with.
Paul

[Civil3DReminders_com]

There doesn't appear to be any connection in the expression properties where you can get the information of the pipe from the structure or the structure info from a pipe. If there was you could create an expression to adjust the height of the vertical lines. There is a work around where you could create a property for the structure and then use the property in an expression to control the vertical lines. While not dynamic it would make it easier then having a bunch of styles.

Well that sucks, just checked and you don't seem to be able to get the custom property to be shown in an expression, although you can use it in a label. So the above won't work. Although if you don't have to use the Hydraulic or Energy Grade Line you could use it instead to provide the control the height of the vertical lines.

[Bill_Myron]

For custom dimensional properties, I use "Structure Riser Height". You can add unlimited number of these and rename them to your liking.

The good thing about this is the property is coded into Civil 3D. So you dont have to mess around with the XML files. I find it does not screw up as much. Also you dont have to remember that your Energy Grade Line property is actually the drop distance.

If you are building your own parts and you need alot of differnt dimensions you need to keep track of things. You can change the description, but not the attribute code; it will always be SRZ1, SRZ2.