Message "Couldn't upload file..."

[evgeny.kurbatov]

I don't understand why the system gives me the message: "Couldn't upload file because it was previously saved to this folder using Revit Cloud Worksharing. Please try uploading to a different folder, or use Revit Cloud Worksharing to save to current folder."

  

The original Revit file was created by architect using Revit Cloud Worksharing, and then published.

I found the file with the web based BIM360 Docs system and copied it to my BIM360 folder. 

Then I decided to modify the model for my needs. I downloaded it to my C: drive and changed it as required.

Then I wanted to update the "old" file in the BIM360 system with my new version.

Using Autodesk Desktop Connector I could see the BIM360 file with Windows Explorer. So I just drag-and-dropped my new file over the old one. Unfortunately I did see the file was updated in Windows Explorer and in cloud.

So I decided to upload the file with web interface. With Chrome I have found the folder were the file is located and tried to upload my new file there. I expected that the old and new files have the same name and I will get its new version. Instead of that I've got the error message written above. 

To have the file updated in cloud I needed to delete the old file and upload the new one.

My personal expectation is that the system should not prevent me from updating the cloud model because it is not the original architectural file created using Revit Cloud Worksharing, but just a copy of it. And it should not be a difference how I create the copy: with BIM360 command or from my local drive. May be I don't understand the system concepts deeply enough. I would be very appreciated if somebody can explain why does it work in that way and not the way I expect?

Thank you,

Evgeny.

[bogdan_ciobanu]

Hi @evgeny.kurbatov

Thank you for your post, very interesting question here. 

Once cloud work-sharing (or collaboration, if you want) has been initiated from Revit, you always need to go through Revit to publish. It will not allow you to upload directly on the web and to override the cloud work-shared version.

The workflow you described would break the whole purpose of cloud collaboration, of multiple users working on the same model whilst still keeping track of all changes. 

To better explain that, I would like to give you an example. Say you downloaded the model yesterday and started to modify it. At the same time, yesterday, I opened the last synced version from Revit, ran some edits myself and then synced again. Because you haven't visited the model again you are not aware of any changes and because you did not sync I am not aware of any changes you made. So, we're basically both working on our own. At the end of my business day, I synced and published my model that was containing some very important changes. Once again, you are not aware of it and you are still working on your local copy. If you would be allowed to upload today directly through the web interface, the model you would upload would basically override all my important changes synced and published yesterday. 

So, it is all for having better control and awareness of what's happening in that central model. 

I hope this answers your question. 

Best regards,

Bogdan

[evgeny.kurbatov]

Hi @bogdan_ciobanu

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I believe I completely understand what you describe. 

But my question is slightly different. I operate not my design file but the model which should be used as a link. Sorry, it didn't describe it clearly. I need to create a copy of original architectural model, put it into my storage and use it as background link for my mechanical project. So, if I modify the background model this modification should not be reflected in the original architectural model.

The second thing is that you point on incorrect workflow preventing me to update the original "live" model. As I described above this is exactly what I want to do. I believe my workflow works well for me.

A couple of words about my workflow.

Common practice for BIM360 Design collaboration is: every model has links to other specialists' models directly and live. Quite often this practice doesn't work well for us. The background model change so quickly, that we need to redo our work several times following changes in the background models. We found that for us it is more reasonable to work with background "snapshots" taking the original architectural, structural, etc. models periodically, for example once a week. 

What I am trying to achieve is implementation of the British BIM Standard PAS 1192-2:2013 and specifically the DOCUMENT & DATA MANAGEMENT REPOSITORY section (please see the attached file). If we look at the attached diagram none of the team refer\link to other's teams' models directly or "live". Model exchange is organized through the SHARED repository where teams' models appear through the APPROVED action. There is the Publish command in Revit which can be run periodically to place model from Design to Docs environment and provide access to the model for other teams. This is exactly matches the APPROVED action in the Standard Diagram, and now I can take it from the SHARED location, place it somewhere, and use for my team needs in the way I want, even modify it.

BTW, I am aware about the Sets feature which is designed for sharing models and drawings between teams.

My initial request was about basic BIM360 functionality - problem to override a copy of the original workshared file, which is not workshared anymore because it is not accessible through the  C4R service. I don't understand why the BIM360 system doesn't allow me to do that, is there any conceptual reason?

Thank you,

Evgeny.

[bogdan_ciobanu]

Hi @evgeny.kurbatov

Thank you for your reply.

Thank you for providing me with more details. I can see why 'live' linking can be confusing and I for sure understand the need to control how frequent those other teams' models are updated.

I am sorry for asking, but if you do not actually want to use 'live' linking why are you using it? Why not using the controlled sharing workflow using packages and linking from the 'Consumed' folder? This way, you could have a lot more control over the linked models you are using daily. You could even agree with the other teams to share a package once a week. Then, you would acknowledge the changes and consume those packages to have your linked models updated. 

Please have a look at the article below, that I believe it will help:

• Understanding Revit Model Linking in BIM 360 Design

Going back to your initial question to why you directly upload a 'local' version of a file over a cloud work-shared version of the same file, that is because it would break the whole cycle. 

Think of all the 'versions' that are not published but just synced as 'in-between' versions saved on an 'intermediary' server. As you know, all versions that are synced by Revit users are visible in Revit even if they are not published. If a Team is working but not publishing, allowing a new version to be uploaded directly to the web would basically ignore all that work that was done, but just not published yet. So, if what you are asking for would be allowed, your team might be working intensively on a model, but not published because they are not ready yet, and you could just upload a version that you initiated from a local copy and that didn't take into account the team's work. So it is all about controlling those changes and the model versioning. 

I hope this was helpful.

Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

If any of the posts in the thread answered your questions, thank you for clicking on Accept Solution, so that other community members can find it and use it easily.

Best regards,

Bogdan

[evgeny.kurbatov]

Hi @bogdan_ciobanu 

Thank you for the provided link. There is always something to read and learn new things. 🙂 I never knew that models get published to the Shared folder.

Why not using the controlled sharing workflow using packages and linking from the 'Consumed' folder?

Currently for our cloud project the "packages and sets" sharing workflow is not established. None of the teams is using it yet. At the same time we cannot work with the "live" model because of the reasons described previously. So the best solution for us is to create a copy of the original other teams' models with frequency we need.

Second, for received models we apply our background procedure to fix the models in the way which works for us better. For example, we set ceilings to non-room-bounding because we want to "link" equipment sitting in the ceiling space, i.e. VAV boxes, to the Space. Because of that the background model we are using is different from the original model received from architect. That's why we want to download the a copy of original model from cloud, clean it up and replace it back in the cloud.

...you could just upload a version that you initiated from a local copy and that didn't take into account the team's work. So it is all about controlling those changes and the model versioning.

As I mentioned I am working not with the "live" or even originally published model. I create a "file copy" (which the System considers as workshared and I disagree with it).  And I want to override that "my own" file with an uploaded version. For now the system allows me only one way to do that: to delete the "file copy", and then upload my local file. I am forced to delete the file and all its versions. Where is the versioning control here? My expectation is that the System should move the "file copy" to old version, and put a local file above it with increased version number. In that way I can always retrieve the "file copy" because all versions are there.

So my idea is simple - regardless of workflow I want to keep versions when I override a cloud file with a local version.

Thank you,

Evgeny.

[bogdan_ciobanu]

Hi @evgeny.kurbatov

Thank you for your reply.

I think at this point the best we can do is to log this as an enhancement request and see if this can be included in the future development plan.

Have you already logged this idea on the  BIM 360 Ideas forum? 

Best regards,

Bogdan