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Bridging workflows (not just files) between accounts // Meshed Projects

Bridging workflows (not just files) between accounts // Meshed Projects

One of the biggest challenges in our industry right now is how project data is shared between projects.

With a greater level of integration between ACC and other platforms and increased in-house ACC API tool development,  and not to mention tighter data sovereignty, companies are working to keep their data housed within their accounts.

When this occurs, numerous ACC workflows are broken, with companies falling back to manual transfer of data between projects and thereby minimising the advantages of using such design and construction platforms.

 

ACC had recently released Bridge for the transfer files between projects. This is a great first step in connecting projects from other accounts, but in its current state is doesn't solve the core problem of connecting workflows. Without a Bridge roadmap, it's unclear if this is actually the direction this development is heading.

 

To digress briefly, the current Bridge functionality continues to play into the narrative that a traditional file storage will continue, rather than a document register that is wrapped with workflows. See my thoughts on this here.

 

But what do I mean by connecting workflows?

 

Where ACC Bridge transfers files between projects that then need to be pushed into workflows (via extra steps), why instead aren't the workflows connected, thereby removing the need to transfer the files first?

 

Examples:

  • Connect/sync the Design Collaboration swin lanes. When one company shares a Package in their account's project, it is instantly shown in all other company's project swin lane.
  • Connect Model Coordination, so that models are automatically federated between account's projects.
  • Use the Transmittals feature to transmit Sheets between account's projects.

 

In the age of meshed WiFi, the upcoming Matter protocol for IoT devices , and even blockchain technology, the world is moving in a direction of working together while maintaining individual control of your own devices and content.

 

An AEC project really isn't any different. Each company should have their own project that is meshed with others, with all using the same underlying platform protocol/s for connecting workflows.

 

My hope is that ACC can move away from legacy methods of managing files, and into managing information.

24 Comments
Flies-Eyes
Advisor

Certainly, I would agree, however our initial excitement that the Bridge tool would resolve consultant collaboration was very shorted lived.  In its current form, I can't see how the ACC could remain.  The last thing we need is for to be renamed, rebadged or re-imagined.

 

Key requirements for the system:-

- Traceability

- Version control

- Permission control

- Collaboration     

 

I shall await the next sales pitch.....

aflamishS9HNH
Contributor

The fact that Autodesk lets you send a Revit model from one project to another with Bridge, but we aren't able to link it to our models is mind-blowing. Why even allow me to send the model in the first place? If it is only for "files" and not for "models", they should restrict me from sending a model altogether; it seems counter-intuitive.

chris.rossetto
Participant

@Chad-Smith I think this is a potentially interesting approach, and could lead to a re-thinking of how project hubs are structured. I can imagine when a project is created, models are hosted on, and shared from various individual organisation hubs rather than re-hosting all models on another organisation's hub. Each organisation could then control what is shared to the central project and manage their own user access to authoring those models.

 

Another consideration would be a 'pulling' of shared information rather than 'pushing'. For example with Model Coordination,  there could be settings in there to define what views, or combinations of categories/worksets/levels etc. are 'pulled' from each shared model for specific coordination views. As opposed to the current method where each model's publish settings defines what information is 'pushed' to DC & MC. Or if it's IFC there is no intelligence. 

 

I think it would be powerful for the organisation/people leading the federation and coordination of information in ACC to 'pull', filter and assemble that information in the cloud (not in the actual models), so it can easily be viewed consumed by others. If models are shared to us from the organisation's own account via bridge, we can choose what information crosses over the bridge into the project environment and when.

 

 

WM_Ron_Allen
Collaborator

Following the usual safe-harbor statements from the bridge presentation 'it is on the boards'.

 

Would be great if we had "Firewalled" BIM 360 hubs behind our firewalls or our our EC3/Azure or  ILO the clouds.

 

2022-11-17(Miro) t101707 Miro.png

 

Trent_Field
Enthusiast

If Autodesk were to approach this with an ISO hat on, they would use suitability and status to provide the information to the Appointed parties for their information, coordination, and review, my suggestion would be once a file has gone through a workflow and suitability has been added it would push this information to the necessary parties. This would all be visible in the insights service as well so a project team at any time can have complete visibility of the information in the project.

nathanielrackhamTEVDG
Participant

I have no idea why this only has 5 votes... having the ability to transfer roles and workflows from one account to another would be a huge time saver... 

Alex.Page.NZ
Contributor

Cant believe one cant link a bridged Revit project.

We did this, which almost works perfectly:

Us to Them:

Bridged our project from our hub into our team folder on another hub (the project lead), (so everytime we  publish it updates in our folder on their hub)

on their hub, package/share like normal

They then consumed

So it looks like it works perfectly with swimlanes, but they cant link the consumed model into their project, says they dont have sufficient privileges (!)

Them to Us:

They packaged/ and shared their model and we consumed on their hub

We bridged the consumed folder into our hub (so everytime we consume their file it updates on our hub)

So again, it looks like it works perfectly with swimlanes, but we cant link the consumed model into our project, says they dont have sufficient privileges (!)

 

I just dont get it

Trent_Field
Enthusiast

@Alex.Page.NZ This would be due to it being a Non Cloud-workshared model even if you do link via the desktop connector there are still limitations in the model being viewed within ACC Docs. 

Alex.Page.NZ
Contributor

@Trent_Field 

Sort of - it is a cloud workshared file (following normal processes): If you mean since its been "copied" through the bridge process its now not a cloud workshared file: it is also "copied" through the package/share/consume process so I would have expected it to work the same way

Trent_Field
Enthusiast

Unfortunately, once it's copied through bridge it loses that functionality completely, even if you add it as a package into your timeline it won't work. Autodesk is working on it, but only for Revit 2023.

WM_Ron_Allen
Collaborator

@Alex.Page.NZ - it may just be permissions.

 

Check versions for your Desktop connector(ADC) 16. ADC 16 Vs. 15.x has some 'dropouts' for non-workshared files. 

 

I have just started looking and testing - but worst case we have the ADC "published" versions. I see the consumed folder in ADC and the files there in ADC15.8. And we have successfully linked NWC files and revit files through the ADC. 

Alex.Page.NZ
Contributor

@WM_Ron_Allen 

Im 100% positive its not permissions: you just cant link the Revit file copied using Bridge into another Revit file.

In our scenario above, we can link it through Desktop Connector, but that is undesirable (especially the teams at the other end of the bridge)

WM_Ron_Allen
Collaborator

@Alex.Page.NZ  - what version of revit are you in?  I am working R22.1. and about to move to R23. We don't see that functionality in R19, R20 and I am not sure if it is in R21.

Alex.Page.NZ
Contributor

@WM_Ron_Allen Tried with Revit 2022, haven't tried with 2023 to see if their is a difference

WM_Ron_Allen
Collaborator

@Alex.Page.NZ  I was able to link revit models through ADCr15.8 and ADCr16 across hubs in Revit 2022.

 

You may want to put in a ticket with Autodesk if you are unable- maybe a New Zeland VS US issue is all I can thing at this point.

https://autodesk.secure.force.com/Customer/apex/Case_CustomerPortalLandingPage#view/CaseManagement_V...

Alex.Page.NZ
Contributor

@WM_Ron_Allen that sounds exciting! Maybe its because my project is quite old....hmmm

Are you sure we are using the term "link" in the same way? Im talking about from within a Revit project in the Autodesk Construction Cloud linking in the other Revit file that has been copied into my  project through the Bridge process.... (just double-checking we are saying the same thing)

WM_Ron_Allen
Collaborator

@Alex.Page.NZ  I am not sure if we are in ACC or the old 36'- probably the old 360.

 

We have a beverage project on the WM hub - odd situation - the primary project is located on our clients hub, where we manually upload our project each week, Hate it but that is the situation.

 

Structural, mechanical and electrical are all uploading or working direct on the Client's hub and generating NWC(Navis works) files for the VDC.

 

We are able to link in the NWC's direct VIA the Client hub through ADC15.8. I realized I had been copying that file in- just tried linking and take a look:

RonAllen_WareMalcombcom_1-1675189011239.png

 

I was able to link the file I was copying without issue.

 

 

Alex.Page.NZ
Contributor

Autodesk Bridge software doesnt work on BIM360 - its just for the newer unified platform Autodesk Construction Cloud.

And using Bridge we can link via the ADC, however, we shouldnt need to.

I think your use case is different than ours

WM_Ron_Allen
Collaborator

It definitely isn't full direct integration - but an artifact. In this case the published model. 'Next steps' may be direct linking VIA the delta updates VIA a "cloud link" but even those are cached locally in some shape of fashion.

 

The end effect is still the same - as long as ADC is up and running - we get the latest NWCs or RVTs VIA the link which manages entire 'intact' files VIA delta bits.

 

Were you intending to open a linked file VIA another hub? IE a workshared-cloud file? Editing(If you have permissions) would be the same, linking and eventually sheets is where bridge comes in.

 

I don't think bridge has evolved to the point where we can see other's models and sheets 'cross-hub' yet.

I just tested the Bridge feature for linking "bridged" Revit models into a Revit file and you are still unable to do this. If you use "external resources" it says you can not link a BIM Collaborate Pro model from one hub to another. If you use Desktop Connector (V16.1.0.1935)  it simply fails. 

 

 

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