BIM 360 Submittals - Too Complicated

[mark.morleyWYS6S]

The system for submittals in BIM 360 PM seems overly complex. the need to create packages and specs makes things confusing and difficult to explain to contractors. Also the separate screens for items and packages screens causes confusion. So much so we have had contractors bypassing the system and sending us emails for submittals saying they couldn't use BIM360 and was taking too much time. Can it be changed to follow the a similar process as RFI's or allow users to select different submittals workflows as with RFi's?

[roeioved]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for reaching out and sharing your feedback.

Can you please share what is it that you like on RFIs that you'd like to have on Submittals too?

Best regards,

Roei Oved

Product Manager, BIM 360

[sburke]

I agree the submittal process is the most convoluted thing I have ever seen.  There is no logical workflow and its easy to get lost in the interface.

[roeioved]

Hi @sburke, 

Thanks for sharing your point of view.

Would be great if you can elaborate - Any thing in specific you find complicated?  What task where you struggled to completed/achieve?

Appreciate any specific information you can provide so we can better understand how can we improve.

[mark.morleyWYS6S]

Hi  @roeioved

Sorry for the delay in responding but RFI's seem to work simply.

A user creates an RFI,  lists who they are assigning it to and any co-reviewers and distribution list. The persons its assigned to responds. And a manager gets to review it between these stages. This seem perfectly logical.

In submittals there's a requirement to assign a manager. And then theres packages which i don't understand the reason for and it seems unnecessary adding an extra layer or complexity. Theres also specifications to create.

Why is there a need to assign a a manger (shouldn't all submittals go to one manager as with RFI's).

Why can't the submittal creator also select the  co-reviewers as with RFI's?

Why is there a need for packages this causes confusion.

I haven't been using submittals for too long but in general its very easy to get lost in the system. And in the industry when people get lost in a system they quickly revert to email as they are under time pressure.

[Anonymous]

I too found the submittal process confusing to prep and execute. It doesn't seem intuitive enough. I managed to muddle through it to accomplish the desired output. 

Firstly, wouldn't the Submittal Manager want to have permission to establish the Spec Sections for the project? From what I can see, a Subcontractor could create and manage a Spec Section.

Secondly, it seems that there is an underlying hierarchy in the backend but, it's not perceived that way from the frontend. I would eliminate the "Items" tab. Simplify the process by forcing the Submittal Manager to generate the Package. In the Package dialog, add a Create Item button to populate it with Item after Item. From the log, I would show it in that hierarchy as well. Make the Package expand and contract to reveal associated Items. 

Finally, finding the Submit to Manager, Reviewer, back to Manager buttons were not easy to track as I motioned through the process. It would make more sense to have it display on the package as the status was changed by each reviewing party rather than track it down in the log. 

[Anonymous]

any updates about this? @roeioved

Does this need more votes ?

[Anonymous]

Agreed @Anonymous , I see it the same way.

@roeioved I'll forward to all our Graitec Techs for more support however I believe I am speaking for all of us when I ask what is the latest on this item? Has a roadmap been established? Could you elaborate?

Let's make it happen 

[Anonymous]

Personally, I think submittals as well as, RFIs, Issues, and Reviews need to  be consistent and simplistic enough for the end-user to follow and understand with minimal training required. Make the web and mobile interface and workflow intuitive. Heck, This is the age of information! Use the interface as a teaching guide! Have a workflow diagram tool-tip that graphically displays the workflow to a confused end-user because, some of these features are customizable by the project admin. How is a designer, engineer, sub, super, or foreman in thick of construction execution going to have time to try and figure out something that is more complex than it needs to be? Complexity and confusion are always going to diminish the value of a good feature and dissuade individuals from using it.

[laurie.spitler]

Hi Bill, Anthony - We are shifting our focus to usability around submittals.  We have some ideas around some stream lining of the item workflow prior to submission, as well as the whole package-item relationship, but we would love to chat as we get into the thick of this in the next couple months.  

Also, Anthony, have you checked out the workflow diagram here?  Is this the type of thing you are talking about?  https://help.autodesk.com/view/BIM360D/ENU/?guid=GUID-B48AD4F2-FD8B-4F99-A97B-3AF9F061FB79

THanks,

Laurie

[laurie.spitler]

Hi Bill, Anthony - We are shifting our focus to usability around submittals.  We have some ideas around some stream lining of the item workflow prior to submission, as well as the whole package-item relationship, but we would love to chat as we get into the thick of this in the next couple months.  

Also, Anthony, have you checked out the workflow diagram here?  Is this the type of thing you are talking about?  https://help.autodesk.com/view/BIM360D/ENU/?guid=GUID-B48AD4F2-FD8B-4F99-A97B-3AF9F061FB79

THanks,

[masoga.kekana]

Hi There,

Is there a resource that can assist those who are starting a project and need to set up Spec sections, packages and items. All resources seem very different, some spec sections are named and others are numbered. the last thing we need is subies reverting to email or insisting on the Review method.

How can submittals be explained to a novice so that it can be understood at all levels.

An example for HVAC ( with AHU), Sprinklers, generators and tiles. 

Thanks 

[Anonymous]

@masoga.kekana 

Laurie Spitler from Autodesk provided a link to the knowledge network in the post just before yours. If you select the hyperlink, everything you want to know about submittals is listed in the Table of Contents on the landing page.

Submittals in the traditional sense are transmittals of product data or shop drawings that define what the sub plans to order/install or fabricate/erect. The intent of a submittal is to get the information approved by the design team so that the products can be ordered from their supply chain and installed on time while meeting the design professional's intent.

In BIM 360 terms, you need to take your Project Specifications and create Submittal Spec Sections. This gives your subs the ability to assign the submittal to the correct Specification Division/Section (i.e. Masterspec). From there, the subs can create Items. For example, a sub could create an Item for each VAV unit identified in the schedules of the Mechanical Engineer's construction documents. Finally, the sub can submit the Items in a Package. In the example, collect all the VAV Items and put them in one Package for review and approval. Once sent, the Package goes through a deliberate workflow to ensure that the Package of Items is reviewed by the desired set of project members.

In this forum, we've been advocating for a more intuitive workflow of putting a Submittal together and exchanging it. 

[masoga.kekana]

Hi @Anonymous I have been through the link you're referring to, thank you. I really appreciate your explanation on Submittals. I have been through the comments and I have to agree, the workflow is not intuitive. Thank you!!

[Anonymous]

@laurie.spitler 

Thank you for the link to the workflow however where is Autodesk with simplify Submittals? Would you like @Anonymous and myself to participate in the conversations for the upgrade? If so it would be my pleasure to hear what you're planning, just send me a personal message and we could book something for 2020.

Best

AI

[masoga.kekana]

@Anonymous @Anonymous 

Please include me when you begin discussions on this topic. It is vital for me to get this right for my team. 

Best Regards

MK