What are the negatives to Revit?

Anonymous · ‎03-07-2006

There have been many comparison threads about ADT
vs. Revit. I know all that and I am not looking for that here.

What I am looking for is
pitfalls one should look out for, or at least consider
before one moves a large company (70+ users) in three offices from ADT to
Revit.

Are there any you can think of, from those of you
who have already made the switch?

--
*<] 🙂 }

CAD Systems Manager
Autodesk Architectural Desktop Certified
Expert

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

You have to go into the Family Editor to remake the Tags, Annotation
Symbols, Doors, etc.
Good luck with Labels, Constraints, Parameters (Project and Shared). It
takes a while to get the hang of it.
Some things I just luck out on, some I actually figured out how to do!

--
Regards,
---------------
Reid M. Addis
Registered Architect
Architectural Applications Specialist
Granary Associates
411 North 20th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19130
Ph. 215-665-7056
email: addis@granaryassoc.com

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

I been with ACAD since R10, also I start doing some little things on Revit,
it's completely diffrente approach from Autocad, but easier, my question
know is how do you work with the consultants? ie., structural, electrical
mechanical etc. when you generate your project on revit, do you export your
floor plans to autocad so they can use them?
Elvis

wrote in message news:5105276@discussion.autodesk.com...
There seem to be a lot of people who are real upset about Revit and the
possibility of it replacing AutoCAD / ADT (in their workplace or in
general). I chalk most of that up to either ignorance or fear.

Many people misunderstand or are ignorant with regards to the capabilities
of Revit. There is a perception that since there are things which are
difficult (almost impossible) to do it Revit that the program is weak of
flawed. These same people don't want to acknowledge that AutoCAD / ADT
often have the same weakness. Instead they choose to point out a system
that does (insert various high end 3-d modeling program here) and ask why
Revit can't do it.

On the subject of fear I believe that there are many people who are afraid
of being put on a level playing field with others in their office (or
industry) because of a new software. They may have been using ACAD / ADT
for 10+ years and have built up a knowledge base that most others in their
organization don't have. Extra Knowledge = Extra Value = Higher Salary. I
have seen it here in my own office. My team of five people having been
running projects in Revit for the past 6 - 7 months, we will be introducing
the other teams to Revit starting at the end of this month. We have had
people quit because they were afraid to learn Revit. They were happy
floating along with the skill set that they had and did not want to risk
being less skilled on a new system.

Anyhow on your specific question there are some big negatives, that being
said it is a trade off. I am willing to put up with the negatives for the
benefits that I receive. Most of the negatives have already been mentioned
here, but I will list some off of the top of my head.

"Standard" (Generic) annotations - Requires some customization (sometimes
difficult, usually annoying) to setup how you want it to look if you don't
like it out of the box.
Elevation symbol - This is built in, neither available option is very good.
Detailing - A lot of the problems I have with detailing are being adressed
with Revit 9, so this isn't much of an issue any more.
Structural Connections - This is a big issue with me, it is difficult to
accurately model complex structural connections. Not because the connection
itself is complex, but because Revit likes to force connections where they
don't necessary apply.
Training - In my opinion there is a lack of "excellent" training available.
Most of the trainers have little to no real world experience with the
program, and have learned from attending classes.
Workforce - The everyday "CAD Monkey" that the tech schools churn out
probably won't cut it. Revit requires you to actually understand how a
building is assembled, that is something that a great deal of the work force
knows very little about. Also there is a small pool of Revit trained talent
to pull from and they are able to demand higher salaries than there AutoCAD
counterparts.

All that being said I should probably tell you about my choice in moving
forward with Revit. First off I have primarily been an AutoCAD user,
however I have worked with and received full training in ADT and Archicad.
I was very good with all three packages, but finding Archicad work is like
finding buried treasure, and there are many more AutoCAD jobs than ADT jobs
so I've been "stuck" with AutoCAD for a majority of my career. I first
began seriously looking at Revit in the fall 04, at that time I was using a
Revit 6.1 seat that we purchased for evaluations. Given my Archicad
background I was able to pick up the program pretty quickly, but I decided
against purchasing the software for my department. In the summer of 05 I
revisited the possibility of using Revit to adress two big issues that we
had been having. The first being incorrect elevation/detail references, the
second being inaccurate and incomplete schedules. I september I purchased 5
seats of Revit Building plus 1 of Structure. My pilot team was very
impressed with the advantages (as was I) so in December I decided to
purchase an additional 55 seats to cover my entire organization. We will be
a Revit only company by the end of the this year.

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

Tony is correct on some things relating to Wall components, especially
adding annotation lines, such as fire ratings into the styles.

I won't go into end caps as I haven't tried them in Revit. ADT has slowly
moved from "it requires brain surgery" to create them to a bit more
interactive.

I still feel that the ability to be "inaccurate" is greater in ADT than in
Revit, even using, say, spanning constructs for things like the exterior
building envelope or stair towers. Also, trying to generate building sections
and elevations requires much more layer and xref coordination than it is worth
most times in ADT. Without Project Navigator, coordination of annotation symbols
from one sheet to another (is that detail on A1.1 or A1.3?) is "at your own
risk" in ADT.

But yeah, both programs do what they do real well. It's more a matter of
what you need the software to do. For some Revit will be a miracle cure, for
others ADT. Neither one is close to "real world", nor do we really want that? Do
you want that level of liability.

--
Regards,
---------------
Reid M. Addis
Registered
Architect
Architectural Applications Specialist
Granary Associates
411
North 20th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19130
Ph. 215-665-7056
email:

href="mailto:addis@granaryassoc.com">addis@granaryassoc.com

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

Thank you;

Can you do it via ObjectARX?

Actually I work as a project manager for an architectural office, and I used
both ADT and Revit back on their earlier releases... Today, I would like to
move into any of the two [I still have A2005]... The problem I see is that
all my designs are not always the same... We are kind of picky with design
phase and when producing our CD's... 🙂

Still have not seen a complete set done it in any of those softwares 😞

--
http://www.geometricad.com

"Reid M. Addis" wrote in message
news:5105350@discussion.autodesk.com...
You have to go into the Family Editor to remake the Tags, Annotation
Symbols, Doors, etc.
Good luck with Labels, Constraints, Parameters (Project and Shared). It
takes a while to get the hang of it.
Some things I just luck out on, some I actually figured out how to do!

--
Regards,
---------------
Reid M. Addis
Registered Architect
Architectural Applications Specialist
Granary Associates
411 North 20th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19130
Ph. 215-665-7056
email: addis@granaryassoc.com

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

I personally have in house staff to cover most disciplines for most of our projects. All of the Architectural and 99% of the structural drafting and design is done in house. The plans are being exported as a dwg for use by the MEP staff. I played around with developing duct and piping families but it didn't seem worth the effort since there will be a Revit MEP program coming soon.

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

Wow.
Who are you?
BTW, at 55 (almost) I want to keep that "edge"so I always look forward to
learning new tricks for an old dog!

--
Regards,
---------------
Reid M. Addis
Registered Architect
Architectural Applications Specialist
Granary Associates
411 North 20th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19130
Ph. 215-665-7056
email: addis@granaryassoc.com

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

ryanmcin wrote (sorta):
> "Extra Knowledge = Extra Value = Higher Salary.
>
> We have had people quit because they were afraid to learn. They were
> happy floating along with the skill set that they had and did not
> want to risk being less skilled on a new system."
>

Well said. To That I'd add:
Don't Learn = Fall Behind = Unemployed.

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

Not sure as I'm not an ObjectARX kind of guy,but I doubt it
(AutocadRuntimeeXention not AutodeskReviteXtenssion right?).
If you are ADN then the API is available, though what it is I haven't a
clue.

--
Regards,
---------------
Reid M. Addis
Registered Architect
Architectural Applications Specialist
Granary Associates
411 North 20th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19130
Ph. 215-665-7056
email: addis@granaryassoc.com

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

Hey Luis,
The only API for Revit is .NET. There is a group for it on this server.
--
Bobby C. Jones
http://www.acadx.com

"Luis Esquivel" wrote in message
news:5105365@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thank you;

Can you do it via ObjectARX?

Actually I work as a project manager for an architectural office, and I used
both ADT and Revit back on their earlier releases... Today, I would like to
move into any of the two [I still have A2005]... The problem I see is that
all my designs are not always the same... We are kind of picky with design
phase and when producing our CD's... 🙂

Still have not seen a complete set done it in any of those softwares 😞

--
http://www.geometricad.com

"Reid M. Addis" wrote in message
news:5105350@discussion.autodesk.com...
You have to go into the Family Editor to remake the Tags, Annotation
Symbols, Doors, etc.
Good luck with Labels, Constraints, Parameters (Project and Shared). It
takes a while to get the hang of it.
Some things I just luck out on, some I actually figured out how to do!

--
Regards,
---------------
Reid M. Addis
Registered Architect
Architectural Applications Specialist
Granary Associates
411 North 20th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19130
Ph. 215-665-7056
email: addis@granaryassoc.com

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

Gracias Roberto!

I downloaded the "Revit_API_.NET_Samples_8.1.zip"... Got a book about NET
and will see.

One more time, I have not seen a complete set of CD's done using ADT nor
Revit 😞

--
http://www.geometricad.com

"Bobby C. Jones" wrote in message
news:5105439@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hey Luis,
The only API for Revit is .NET. There is a group for it on this server.
--
Bobby C. Jones
http://www.acadx.com

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

We've been producing CD's with ADT for about 5 years now. I don't have any
with Revit.
--
Bobby C. Jones
http://www.acadx.com

"Luis Esquivel" wrote in message
news:5105486@discussion.autodesk.com...
Gracias Roberto!

I downloaded the "Revit_API_.NET_Samples_8.1.zip"... Got a book about NET
and will see.

One more time, I have not seen a complete set of CD's done using ADT nor
Revit 😞

--
http://www.geometricad.com

"Bobby C. Jones" wrote in message
news:5105439@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hey Luis,
The only API for Revit is .NET. There is a group for it on this server.
--
Bobby C. Jones
http://www.acadx.com

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

Is there a place where I can have a look into a set of drawings
[architectural] done in ADT or Revit?

Or if anyone [if it is possible] to send me some images/dwf's/pdf's] samples
to:

supportATgeometricadDOTcom

Thank you.

--
http://www.geometricad.com

Bobby C. Jones

We've been producing CD's with ADT for about 5 years now. I don't have any
with Revit.

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

Tony Burba wrote:
...I believe that Revit gives you an easy approximation of a building,...

Say what?

...but that ADT can take you much closer to reality before you have to
start painting over the model and drawing details to show what you
really mean...

So cutting a section for a section view, and then creating a detail
callout from that section for finer detailing purposes is not getting
close enough to reality?
I'm an ex-ADT convert and have to say that Revit has been far more
flexible and 'closer to reality' than ADT ever was.

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

When you say "complete" you mean Sections, Exterior and Interior Elevations
all generated from the 3D aec objects and mvblocks?
No, we haven't been able to do that, though it is more my fault for not
getting everything set up to do this easily, though there are limits in
ADT2005.
All our plans and details are done through ADT and the Detail Manager.

--
Regards,
---------------
Reid M. Addis
Registered Architect
Architectural Applications Specialist
Granary Associates
411 North 20th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19130
Ph. 215-665-7056
email: addis@granaryassoc.com

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

I'd like to see those posted here

>Is there a place where I can have a look into a set of drawings
>[architectural] done in ADT or Revit?

Anonymous · ‎03-08-2006

Yes;

I was an user of softdesk8, and then use the first version of adt until
version 2.0, I abandoned because on those days, it were not possible to
produce a real professional set of CD's.

Live sections that were dead, to painful to generate the interior elevations
per each room, etc, etc.

Anyways, I been reading and reading several times about ADT and Revit as
much I can, since I am in the boat right now, that is needed to make a
change into a better package to produce my CD's if it cannot be done in a
100% is understandable maybe let say 70% +-... still that helps.

But, I would like to SEE and from there do a comparison about what I have
already.

I am attached a simple floor plan of one of my designs drawn by me too, if I
can be able to come up with something similar using any of those packages I
would be a happy camper.... 🙂

Thanks.

--
http://www.geometricad.com

"Reid M. Addis"
When you say "complete" you mean Sections, Exterior and Interior Elevations
all generated from the 3D aec objects and mvblocks?
No, we haven't been able to do that, though it is more my fault for not
getting everything set up to do this easily, though there are limits in
ADT2005.
All our plans and details are done through ADT and the Detail Manager.

--
Regards,
---------------
Reid M. Addis
Registered Architect
Architectural Applications Specialist
Granary Associates
411 North 20th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19130
Ph. 215-665-7056
email: addis@granaryassoc.com

Anonymous · ‎03-09-2006

May I respectfully say that reading about ADT with only a small exposure to
ADT 2.0 is like reading about sailing having been to a wharf. Until you
work with the current version, you will not trust it. Get an NFR copy and
see what you can do. [Perhaps I just answered my own question too.]

We have many hundreds of project completed and every bit as detailed as your
image represents. Further, we have many huge jobs done in it as well. 45
acres, 17 city blocks, all in ADT & 3D. It can be done.

I want to know what I need to know, going in, to do all this with Revit.
That was my original question.
--
*<] 🙂 }

CAD Systems Manager
Autodesk Architectural Desktop Certified Expert

"Luis Esquivel" wrote in message
news:5105639@discussion.autodesk.com...
Yes;

I was an user of softdesk8, and then use the first version of adt until
version 2.0, I abandoned because on those days, it were not possible to
produce a real professional set of CD's.

Live sections that were dead, to painful to generate the interior elevations
per each room, etc, etc.

Anyways, I been reading and reading several times about ADT and Revit as
much I can, since I am in the boat right now, that is needed to make a
change into a better package to produce my CD's if it can
not be done in a
100% is understandable maybe let say 70% +-... still that helps.

But, I would like to SEE and from there do a comparison about what I have
already.

I am attached a simple floor plan of one of my designs drawn by me too, if I
can be able to come up with something similar using any of those packages I
would be a happy camper.... 🙂

Thanks.

--
http://www.geometricad.com

"Reid M. Addis"
When you say "complete" you mean Sections, Exterior and Interior Elevations

all generated from the 3D aec objects and mvblocks?
No, we haven't been able to do that, though it is more my fault for not
getting everything set up to do this easily, though there are limits in
ADT2005.
All our plans and details are done through ADT and the Detail Manager.

--
Regards,
---------------
Reid M. Addis
Registered Architect
Architectural Applications Specialist
Granary Associates
411 North 20th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19130
Ph. 215-665-7056
email: addis@granaryassoc.com

Anonymous · ‎03-09-2006

🙂

I know ... thanks

--
http://www.geometricad.com

Get a .... copy and see what you can do.

Anonymous · ‎03-09-2006

Biggest stumbling block I've seen with Revit:

you can't cheat anymore.

with AutoCAD, everyone's used to cheating. Not really being forced to think about how the building is actually coming together, how the design actually works, we've all just been drawing things. Pushing out uncoordinated, unfinished, glossed over work can sadly be the norm.

Even with ADT, one can simply explode the model and force things to 'look' the way they want, whether that really represents the conditions of the construction.

Every single time someone had handed me a set of AutoCAD or ADT Cd's to turn into a Revit Project, they swear to me, up and down, that their drawings are coordinated, clean, and accurate. Within the FIRST DAY I usually find at least five, if not ten to twenty major to minor coordination errors where things don't line up, don't work as drawn, don't work as a building.

So the biggest problem with Revit and BIM is that it's a change to the process, and you've got to have people who both understand how a building goes together and are willing to embrace this whole BIM thing and a new way of working. Some really like it. Some can't stand it. Just like the switch from paper to CAD.

Now, this is if you're switching whole-hog. There's a lot you can do in Revit, yet still do things in AutoCAD too. There's a couple of firms that work that way. Start the project in Revit, then export to AutoCAD for CD's. There's places that do the opposite, start the project in AutoCAD & Sketchup & Max, and then bring it all into Revit for DD's and CD's. It's all about the process of how you deliver a project, and how you can work BIM and Revit into that process. That's the tough nut to crack. In the end it's just a tool, really. It's got bugs, just like any software, and issues, and with software you pick your poison. However, what I'd be more worried about is the fact that your process and people are gonna have to change to make BIM really work, and if your firm isn't up to the task, it could never take off or be a very painful road ahead.

Just my 2 cents.

Anonymous · ‎03-09-2006

ha-ha. Hey, is it still true that elevations and sections in ADT can be off because of the hidden line projection? I just read about that the other day.

See, I export models from Revit, elevations and sections too, to a CNC mill to fabricate furniture, and someday parts of buildings too. I'm working up to that. Anyways, so then, is it true that the elevations and sections out of ADT can be up to a 1/16" off? Because if it is, well, there's NO WAY THAT YOU COULD POSSIBLY take that BIM model and use it for automated manufacturing.

You might not care about that fact, but when you bring up the 'accuracy' of things, and hold up ADT as the 'better' system, well, I just gotta ask about this one.

And as a bonus round: how much can you trust a system where anyone can explode anything at any time and just fudge it?

What are the negatives to Revit?

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