Autodesk Technology Managers Forum
Share your knowledge, ask questions, and engage with fellow CAD/BIM Managers.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

How bad are things when a company lays off there CAD people and can't make de

16 REPLIES 16
Reply
Message 1 of 17
Anonymous
438 Views, 16 Replies

How bad are things when a company lays off there CAD people and can't make de

One of our engineers left us for greener fields.
He called the other day stating the cut back of CAD people.
They are 100 day late on deliverables and growing.
They can't put in titleblock nor edit attributes.
At least they asked for help.

Later
Kirk
16 REPLIES 16
Message 2 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Typical, profits are down so lay off production staff.

But, on the other hand, the growing trend is Engineers doing their own drafting. The days of a drafting staff are numbered, even for the technically trained designer. Where 25 years ago one engineer would keep 3-5 drafters/designers busy, we now have about a one-to-one ratio with much of the rough-in CAD work done by the engineer. Result, doing a lot more work with fewer people.

Unfortunately, engineers don't come CAD trained, but that's another topic.
Message 3 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Engineers usually don't know the ins and outs of
AutoCAD as they don't have time after hours to study the program but need
to keep up to date on their discipline.  Many extra hours are required to
check newsgroups, "furnished" (online) manuals  which are great for studing
at home!?#$, books, and write AutoLISP routines.  Really hard to highlight
the sections on the screen and bookmark them.


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
Typical,
profits are down so lay off production staff.

But, on the other hand, the growing trend is Engineers doing their own
drafting. The days of a drafting staff are numbered, even for the technically
trained designer. Where 25 years ago one engineer would keep 3-5
drafters/designers busy, we now have about a one-to-one ratio with much of the
rough-in CAD work done by the engineer. Result, doing a lot more work with
fewer people.

Unfortunately, engineers don't come CAD trained, but that's another
topic.

Message 4 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>>Engineers usually don't know the ins and outs of AutoCAD as <<

Very true, but I'm seeing a shift in that. In the very near future ACAD will have to be another tool in their arsenal. Hopefully, they'll still need a couple of us old hands around for the "cute" stuff.
Message 5 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I think you're wrong on this one. While it's true that most engineers will
never learn the ins/outs of LISP, VBA, or even read the newsgroups, how many
of your draftsmen do? The tools in CAD are becoming design tools, not
drafting tools, especially in the verticals. The darkest corners of the
program can typically be handled by one or two people in most offices, with
most of the others being normal users that crank out good design and
plansets.

I will always say that it's easier to teach an engineer to draft than a
draftsmen to engineer.
--
James Wedding, P.E.
IT Manager
Jones & Boyd, Inc.
Dallas, TX
jwedding@*NOSPAM*jones-boyd.com
Message 6 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

It's also easier to teach a "draftsman" to use CAD than it is to teach a
"CAD operator" to be a draftsman.

I don't use the verticals so I really can't speak about them. Unfortunately
most of my clients are not interested in pretty 3d pictures. Most just want
contract documents or working drawings necessary to get a permit for
construction.



"James Wedding" wrote in message
news:D79EF5B224F4534AAA8083584D7487FD@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I think you're wrong on this one. While it's true that most engineers will
> never learn the ins/outs of LISP, VBA, or even read the newsgroups, how
many
> of your draftsmen do? The tools in CAD are becoming design tools, not
> drafting tools, especially in the verticals. The darkest corners of the
> program can typically be handled by one or two people in most offices,
with
> most of the others being normal users that crank out good design and
> plansets.
>
> I will always say that it's easier to teach an engineer to draft than a
> draftsmen to engineer.
> --
> James Wedding, P.E.
> IT Manager
> Jones & Boyd, Inc.
> Dallas, TX
> jwedding@*NOSPAM*jones-boyd.com
>
>
Message 7 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>The tools in CAD are becoming design tools<< CAD tools have always been design tools; it’s just that now some are beginning to see that. >I will always say that it's easier to teach an engineer to draft than a draftsmen to engineer.<< I used to say that until I attempted to teach drafting to engineers. It only took four years to get their degree, but I've been working on a couple here for 11 years. "Because it looks like (Edited)" is no reason to change in their eyes, "It still works". If every engineer (and designer for that matter) did a 2-year internship in the shop and in the field, we'd go a long way in efficient production. You can engineer it to 16 sig-dig, and CAD a work of art, but if the guy with an eighth-grade education, standing knee-deep in the mud out at the site can't build it, it's all a waste. We sometimes forget that the true essence of our business is communication.
Message 8 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

my project manager (who is a good friend, as well as manager of our Civil
Engineering Department) told me that he's a MANAGER. He wants to manage
the projects, give me an idea of what he needs, and let me design it.
He'll make corrections, but production shouldn't be left up to him.

Of course, I've been in this line for a while now. Most young CAD people
have no idea about design work.



--
Jason Hickey

Goodwyn, Mills, and Cawood, Inc.
1102 South 20th Street
Birmingham, Alabama, 35205
(205) 879-4462
www.gmcnetwork.com
(Take me out to reply)


"The Ozone layer or cheese in a spray can....don't make me choose."
Message 9 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

A good manager will hire a cad draftsman/manager to customize things for his
engineering staff...
A really good cad guy will act as a 'consultant' and "work his way out of a
job"... He'll customize the system for the engineers to run Without a
"simple" draftsman.

Software improvements need less "hands-on" custiomization... customized
software needs fewer semi-skilled designers.

Be forwarned... while there will always be Some need for them, techs are a
dying breed! (IMO)

And a company that fires the Skilled Cad staff is either MORE capable than
last month, or more in trouble than a firing can help.
Message 10 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"PF" wrote in message
news:049683CC008F85A74FD4A8289BC119FB@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> A good manager will hire a cad draftsman/manager to
customize things for his
> engineering staff...
> A really good cad guy will act as a 'consultant' and "work
his way out of a
> job"... He'll customize the system for the engineers to
run Without a
> "simple" draftsman.
>

Never gonna happen, most engineers I've worked with have no
interest in being drafters or CAD Techs. Sure, they like to
fool around with a CAD program, but let them sit and do
hundreds of drawings day after day, no way, that's not what
they trained for or in most cases were hired for.
Design/drafting is a learned skill and so far there isn't a
CAD program out there that can replace a good designer, make
life easier yes, replace, no. The magic button hasn't been
invented yet. It's a hard concept for some to grasp, but
the computer doesn't engineer or design, it just sits there
waiting for instructions.


> Software improvements need less "hands-on"
custiomization... customized
> software needs fewer semi-skilled designers.

Like I said, a good tool, but you better have a top notch
designer doing , or overseeing your customization


> Be forwarned... while there will always be Some need for
them, techs are a
> dying breed! (IMO)

Techs, maybe but skilled designers well versed in CAD use,
not yet.


> And a company that fires the Skilled Cad staff is either
MORE capable than
> last month, or more in trouble than a firing can help.
>
I'll vote for deep (edited), no helping them. Fits in with
coporate America, "we need to cut back", so what do they do?
Lay of mail clerks, file clerks, and maintenance people
ect.... Then can't figure out why nothing improved.
That's my $1.50 worth for today.

Pete

>
>
Message 11 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"James Wedding" wrote in message:
> I think you're wrong on this one.

I agree - differently...
With computer-savy users now graduating into Management/Design roles
the use of vertical products allows for design and drafting to be
combined in the
same swoop of the stylus.
The CAD Drafter is slowly degressing into the
CAD Detailer, CAD Annotator, or CAD Output Formatter.
and not much more than that.
Which is why we see more and more of the 1:1 relationship
someone else here has mentioned...

--
CoreyL
Message 12 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

The last time I said something like that -- the truth -- many of the
sissies that use this newsgroup jumped all over me. I fought them
off single handedly with one hand tied behind my back 😉

-
<%= Clinton Gallagher
         A/E/C Consulting, Web Design, e-Commerce Software Development
         Wauwatosa, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin USA
         NET csgallagher@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com
         URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/

         LaGarde StoreFront 5 Affiliate: e-Commerce Software Development
         SEE: http://www.storefront.net/default.asp?REFERER=-201499070
Message 13 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Ahh yes, but this is now a kinder, gentler forum. Hadn't you noticed?
Message 14 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I have been in the civil engineering side of things for about 20 years and I
think the revolution in drafting occured in the 80's - that is when the age
of drafters went away. So how about this: since release 12, all we are
doing is making the tech job more secure by making all of these programs
more complicated.
As far the the end result - in my field - going from design to a built
environment - I have not seen any "great" productivity enhancements in a
long time. Mostly, it comes down to how an office is managed. And that is
always a problem, since the things that make a good engineer/architect/cad
person are not the same things that make a good people/business manager.

"Pete Gaudette" wrote in message
news:3086018C17E2418BE27CB01CD6591A0D@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> "PF" wrote in message
> news:049683CC008F85A74FD4A8289BC119FB@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > A good manager will hire a cad draftsman/manager to
> customize things for his
> > engineering staff...
> > A really good cad guy will act as a 'consultant' and "work
> his way out of a
> > job"... He'll customize the system for the engineers to
> run Without a
> > "simple" draftsman.
> >
>
> Never gonna happen, most engineers I've worked with have no
> interest in being drafters or CAD Techs. Sure, they like to
> fool around with a CAD program, but let them sit and do
> hundreds of drawings day after day, no way, that's not what
> they trained for or in most cases were hired for.
> Design/drafting is a learned skill and so far there isn't a
> CAD program out there that can replace a good designer, make
> life easier yes, replace, no. The magic button hasn't been
> invented yet. It's a hard concept for some to grasp, but
> the computer doesn't engineer or design, it just sits there
> waiting for instructions.
>
>
> > Software improvements need less "hands-on"
> custiomization... customized
> > software needs fewer semi-skilled designers.
>
> Like I said, a good tool, but you better have a top notch
> designer doing , or overseeing your customization
>
>
> > Be forwarned... while there will always be Some need for
> them, techs are a
> > dying breed! (IMO)
>
> Techs, maybe but skilled designers well versed in CAD use,
> not yet.
>
>
> > And a company that fires the Skilled Cad staff is either
> MORE capable than
> > last month, or more in trouble than a firing can help.
> >
> I'll vote for deep dodo, no helping them. Fits in with
> coporate America, "we need to cut back", so what do they do?
> Lay of mail clerks, file clerks, and maintenance people
> ect.... Then can't figure out why nothing improved.
> That's my $1.50 worth for today.
>
> Pete
>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Did you ever hit that nail right on the
head!!

 

 

>
<SNIP>>>>>>>>since the things that make a
good engineer/architect/cad person are not the same things that make a good
people/business manager
.
>
> "
Message 16 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

In reference to management/production qualifications I have to agree. Some of the worst managers I've seen were excellent production staff. However a manager needs to know what he's managing.

In reference to "great" productivity enhancements, what do you mean by "a long time". I've spent days and days dragging a planimeter around profiles to get end areas for volume calcs that can be done in a couple of seconds now. Most of those tools, especially hydraulic design tools, have been developed in the last 10-12 years.
Message 17 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Hi.
The hydraulic stuff I use/have seen has been developed in the last 10-12
years - I agree with you - the hydraulic software we use is not acad but
stand alone suites.

When I say no "great" enhancements, I am talking about the optimization
tools - ie, the pipes profiling, the road profiling. You could run out
twenty or thirty different road designs/profiles with earthworks in the time
it would take to do one, pre-cad. The optimization tools were there in the
old releases of softdesk. It seems like the newer enhancements are all
aimed at collaboration. Collaboration is a tough productivity enhancement,
as we all know, because of all of conflicting company/discipline standards.

(snip) However a manager needs to know what he's managing

-that's the truth. And the old dca/softdesk stuff ran volumes. We did not
trust it, at first, and hand-checked everything.

"OLD-CADaver" wrote in message
news:f16f706.60@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
In reference to management/production qualifications I have to agree. Some
of the worst managers I've seen were excellent production staff. However a
manager needs to know what he's managing.
In reference to "great" productivity enhancements, what do you mean by "a
long time". I've spent days and days dragging a planimeter around profiles
to get end areas for volume calcs that can be done in a couple of seconds
now. Most of those tools, especially hydraulic design tools, have been
developed in the last 10-12 years.

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Administrator Productivity


Autodesk Design & Make Report