Energy analysis results baseline metrics determination

[mjs0757]

Hi,

My name is Malcolm, I am doing a project for Bach.Eng.Tech. (civil) at ARA Institute in Christchurch NZ.

I am trying to determine the baseline of results, i.e. the parameters/metrics that the analysis uses to determine the results.

I have modeled a large structure 120m x 45m, an animal shelter with a hydroponic tunnel house on top, a hybrid structure for agriculture.

I have set the location and picked a weather station, got results from within Revit and out of Carbon Insight. However what I am really after is what the internal  environment is as a starting point that these results are calculated from. Clearly the analysis uses the weather stats to determine what this environment internally is through out the year, and that is the information I want to see. Is there any way of accessing these background metrics.

Also can you adjust the parameters used by the analysis. e.g. heating set point, cooling set point as these are aimed at human comfort levels not that of animals in the shelter, which will probably not be controlled and will be open to the surrounding environment. 

The project is a bit left field of the normal use of Revit and building performance analysis as it is aimed at a sustainability and food production productivity study, However these are the tools I have used before and wanted to utilise in the study, I did the original BPAC cert from back in the this day of GreenBuilding studio. I am also going to undertake some modeling in CFD also as part of the study.

Any pointers gratefully received.

Regards

Malcolm

[corina.marinesc]

Hi Malcolm, 

Thank you for reaching out with such a great set of questions. 

About the weather data, Revit and subsequently Insight is using the following: 

• Typical Meteorological Year (TMY) data:

  These stations, identified by numbers starting with 59###, provide long-term data for major cities worldwide. 
• Autodesk Climate Server data:

  When TMY data is unavailable, the Climate Server provides global weather data at a 14 km grid.
• Key weather variables:

  The data includes information on temperature, humidity, solar radiation, wind speed and direction, and more. 

About how to Adjust Setpoints in Revit for Energy Analysis:

Revit’s energy analysis tools (including Insight) default to human comfort ranges, but you can override these:

1. Use Spaces and Zones:
• Go to the Analyze tab → Spaces & Zones.
• Select the relevant Zone or Space.
• In the Properties panel, scroll to Heating Information and Cooling Information.
• Adjust the Heating Set Point and Cooling Set Point to match the conditions suitable for animals or unconditioned spaces.
2. Energy Settings Dialog:
• Under Analyze → Energy Settings, you can define broader assumptions for the analytical model.
• These include default setpoints, which can be customized before generating the Insight model.
3. Insight Factors:

• In Insight, you can further refine assumptions by adjusting newly released Simulation Factors for HVAC systems, LPD, plug-in loads, infiltration rate, and so much more (I just listed what I thought was relevant)
• While Insight doesn’t let you input exact temperatures per space, it does allow you to simulate lower energy use by selecting passive systems or reducing conditioning intensity.
• you can also use Factors and Metrics with formulas to expand the analysis beyond the defaults that we provide and try other design scenarios. 

🐾 For Animal Shelters or Open-Air Spaces:

• Consider setting heating setpoint to a lower threshold (e.g., 10–12°C) or disabling cooling altogether.
• You can also model these areas as unconditioned zones, which will exclude them from HVAC load calculations.

We would be happy to support you if you have further questions. 
Corina

[mjs0757]

Hi,

Thanks for the insights (ha ha), I had read this was possible previously but unfortunately all parameters in properties are greyed out and can't be edited.

[corina.marinesc · Accepted solution]

Is it possible that in Revit you're looking at Analytical Spaces and not Spaces? 

You can define properties per Space (screenshot 1) or can default everything to Building Type properties for a more simple approach where the Building/Space type properties will be used (screenshot 2). Just make sure to select the corresponding type in Energy Settings if you're going with the broad approach (screenshot 3). 

Here's a help article that walks through the hierarchy between Revit-modeled Spaces, Energy Settings, and the Analytical Spaces created during EAM (Energy Analytical Model) generation. While the main focus is on how Insight handles the HVAC Simulation Factor, I think it’s a great reference for understanding what to expect later in the Insight workflow, especially if you’re planning to explore variations in HVAC system inputs.

We always appreciate feedback and genuinely enjoy seeing such insightful questions from our users as it helps us keep improving!

[mjs0757]

Hi Corina,

That is exactly what I was doing, so thanks now I can apply specific setting for each space:- Animal shelter -  little or no conditioning. Green house - specific higher than normal setting for temp set points and humidification set points to suit hydroponic vegetable production.

Regards

Malcolm

[mjs0757]

Hi again,

I have managed to set the 2 difference environments, Animal Shelter and Green house plus a plenum space between the floor of the greenhouse and the roof of the animal shelter. As expected with lower set points for the animal shelter and higher set points for the greenhouse there was significant energy savings on cooling and heating with animal shelter set to naturally ventilated. I have added a lighting schedule for the green house to give 18 hours of lit space with lower percentages through the day because we are only trying to supplement the energy from the sun. I run the Revit annual energy analysis, but I am not getting any value for lighting energy use in the generated reports nor on Carbon insight. How do I get this information to show.

[giuseppe_ardito]

Hi @mjs0757 ,

for the Animal Shelter and Green house spaces, make sure that your lighting loads are more than zero. To do so, open the Space type settings and double check the lighting loads field.

Let us know if you need more information or support.

I look forward to hearing from you

Best

Giuseppe 

[mjs0757]

Thanks Giuseppe,

They are both set to non zero

Regards

Malcolm

[mjs0757]

[giuseppe_ardito]

Hi @mjs0757 ,

Apologies for my late reply.

Is there a chance you can share your model? So we can take a quick look at it to understand what it is happening to the lighting consumptions?

I look forward to hearing from you

Best

Giuseppe

[mjs0757]

Hi Giuseppe,

As requested, below.

Malcolm

[mjs0757]

Hi,

Just wondering if there has been any chance to have a look at my model, to determine why lighting is not coming through in my report?

Malcolm

[giuseppe_ardito]

Hi @mjs0757 ,

we are actively investigating an issue on your model associated to some external walls wrongly translated into Air surface once the EAM is generated.

We will get back to you as soon as possible once we will route cause the problem.

Best

Giuseppe 

[mjs0757]

Thanks, Guiseppe,

I best describe what I am trying to achieve as air walls makes sense in my scenario for my engineering project.

While I realize that Revit energy analysis requires an enclosed envelope, I am trying to get an analysis on a Hyrid Structure that has an animal shelter Base structure, which would have open sides with a steel structure roof, this is topped off with a greenhouse for hydroponic vegetables. So both are not really for human comfort but manipulated for Cows (660) in the shelter and plant production. Effectively the shelter would only be naturally ventilated and the greenhouse very specifically manipulated for light levels and temperature. An unusual energy analysis for Revit. I am carrying this out with a two-prong analysis using tools available to me including Autodesk Revit, CFD and Fluent CFD.  Hence the mass exterior wall I set to light construction no insulation, as this was the closest to an open wall. Though I have set <Building> overrides to "Frame wall without insulation (U=1.9818 W/(m²·K)"), so this would be used in the analysis, but mass opening (air) would make sense for the "walls", though I assume this is not possible.

Regards

Malcolm

[mjs0757]

Hi,
I am nearing the end of my project but still really a bit more detail of where the energy is being used in my "hybrid Structure", even though there is lighting and electrical loads entered I only get heating and cooling loads nothing indicating use of lights and power. Even if I schedule 24 hours on for all schedules nothing comes through on reports, no matter whet schedules are entered nothing happens as far as showing other electricity use.
This was attempt to show how good the Revit energy analysis workflow was, but I am somewhat bamboozled and disappointed with the results.

Malcolm

[giuseppe_ardito]

Hi Malcom,

we are actively investigating the problem associated with the lighting and power usage. 
We are prioritizing your issue in order to root cause in Revit the main reason the model does not report the correct energy usage.

We will get back to you as soon as possible.

Best

Giuseppe