Advantages over Revit?

[Anonymous]

I sense that ADT has a lot more control and customization than Revit. I
know Revit is better w/ live sections and elevations right now, and I'm sure
ADesk is working on this for R4. I am curious about other people's
perception of the advantages of ADT over Revit.

Any thoughts?

Christopher


P.S. I haven't read the discussion group rules in a long time. Not sure if
this post goes against the mentioning of other software packages.

[Anonymous]

Cheers to the out of the box feel comment. Lots of room for imporovement
here. I, for one, never use the out of the box wall styles--I draw in
actual dimensions, not nominal ones.


"Aaron" wrote in message
news:B3B9158460FAB9DC53D510F7FB76AA8A@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> ....but back to Revit. I have used Revit and like most software there is
> good and bad. People point at it and say, "See - simpler to use." I found
> the learning curve about the same as ADT. Yes, there are a few things
> Autodesk could learn from - like inserting a door also brings in a door
tag.
> But it has far fewer basic drafting features than AutoCAD.
>
> Where Revit excelled is in the "out of the box" feel. The sample wall
styles
> and sheets, look like they were designed by an architect. Who likes the
> default layout in ADT? Or the default walls. How many of you drew a
ceiling
> grid in Mspace using the Imperial Template and said where's my ceiling?
And
> how about window sills? Who doesn't draw window sills in plan? If Autodesk
> had created a better "out of the box" feel for the default settings and
> styles, ADT would have hit all time sales records.
>
> "Matt Dillon" wrote in message
> news:6AADCFA3E80A12FCFE92D81D9D224A88@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > I think what Aaron is saying is that he doesn't think support of legacy
> data
> > will be an issue. If you look at Inventor, it reads and writes DWG files
> > with no problem that I'm aware of.
> >
> > So it stands to reason any future product along those lines for
> Architecture
> > would follow the same model.
> >
> > --
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > --------
> > Please do not email me privately with technical issues
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > --------
> >
> > Matt Dillon
> > Assistant Moderator: Autodesk Discussion Forums
> >
> > http://www.dccadd.com
> >
> >
> > "Christopher Herr" wrote in message
> > news:FB4B5A711B9C751814BBF3344E5DEC7B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Aaron, so I'm clear, do you disagree that ADesk should support legacy
> data?
> > What do you think about the relationship between supporting legacy data
> and
> > the evolution of the modeling aspect of the software?
> >
> > Christopher
> >
> >
>
>

[Anonymous]

For an example of keyboard access without a command line, take a look at VIZ
or MAX. In fact, you can even EASILY customize your keyboard command
shortcuts in VIZ, making all of the commands accessible by virtually any
keystroke combination you want. And those keyboard shortcuts can be saved in
files analogous to user profiles in ADT/AutoCAD.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Please do not email me privately with technical issues
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

Matt Dillon
Assistant Moderator: Autodesk Discussion Forums

http://www.dccadd.com


"Brian Harder" wrote in message
news:429872214206C15F9C0816791DA61F90@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I'm not sure what the alternative to a command line would be and still
have
> keyboard access, so I'll disagree. Don't EVER lose the command line.
It's
> one of many things that makes AutoCAD BETTER then many of the other
products
> out there. At least keep it as an option.
>
> -Brian
>
> "mark webb, autodesk" wrote in message
> news:DC6C73A98BB4C4CF2807C87418158EF7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Thanks, that was the kind of answer I expected.
> > Keyboard access (and QUICK keyboard access at that) is vital. Having a
> > command line to enable this is not necessarily vital...
> >
> > Agreed/disagreed ?
> >
> > --
> > mark webb
> > software engineer
> > building industry division, autodesk
> >
> >
> >
> > "scott h" wrote in message
> > news:821F7364CC1E634425077376A78C1F09@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > Is it the command line that you love, or more the fact that > you
have
> > > quick keyboard access to everything..?
> > > > This is an important distinction that maybe one day will
> > > > affect continued command line access.
> > >
> > > KEYBOARD command initiation needs to remain forever. Chasing icons or
> > > pulldowns is a pain in the arse & it's slow. You waste time & screen
> > space
> > > using them. I understand that it's easier to teach people to use a
> > pulldown
> > > or an icon to start a command, but if you want to be fast, you use the
> > left
> > > hand on the keyboard & right hand on the mouse. Call the tower for
> > > clearance, because that's the way to really fly.... no offense
> intended,
> > > just replying to Mark Webb, IMHO.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Anonymous]

I think one of the things that many overlook when considering this question
is that (especially for new AutoCad users) the command line is an online
tutor of sorts....

Command: line
Specify first point:
Specify next point or [Undo]:
Specify next point or [Undo]:

See how it leads you.... asking you to provide the correct input? Command
line feedback is what is so valuable. I almost completely learned AutoCad by
just starting a command and then reading my way thru the prompts. Easy.

Fitz
William D. Fitzpatrick Jr.
Autodesk BID


"Matt Dillon" wrote in message
news:FA754ABC03DA9CBCC9DEA5C521B6FDD4@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> For an example of keyboard access without a command line, take a look at
VIZ
> or MAX. In fact, you can even EASILY customize your keyboard command
> shortcuts in VIZ, making all of the commands accessible by virtually any
> keystroke combination you want. And those keyboard shortcuts can be saved
in
> files analogous to user profiles in ADT/AutoCAD.
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --------
> Please do not email me privately with technical issues
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --------
>
> Matt Dillon
> Assistant Moderator: Autodesk Discussion Forums
>
> http://www.dccadd.com
>
>
> "Brian Harder" wrote in message
> news:429872214206C15F9C0816791DA61F90@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > I'm not sure what the alternative to a command line would be and still
> have
> > keyboard access, so I'll disagree. Don't EVER lose the command line.
> It's
> > one of many things that makes AutoCAD BETTER then many of the other
> products
> > out there. At least keep it as an option.
> >
> > -Brian
> >
> > "mark webb, autodesk" wrote in message
> > news:DC6C73A98BB4C4CF2807C87418158EF7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > Thanks, that was the kind of answer I expected.
> > > Keyboard access (and QUICK keyboard access at that) is vital. Having a
> > > command line to enable this is not necessarily vital...
> > >
> > > Agreed/disagreed ?
> > >
> > > --
> > > mark webb
> > > software engineer
> > > building industry division, autodesk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "scott h" wrote in message
> > > news:821F7364CC1E634425077376A78C1F09@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > Is it the command line that you love, or more the fact that > you
> have
> > > > quick keyboard access to everything..?
> > > > > This is an important distinction that maybe one day will
> > > > > affect continued command line access.
> > > >
> > > > KEYBOARD command initiation needs to remain forever. Chasing icons
or
> > > > pulldowns is a pain in the arse & it's slow. You waste time &
screen
> > > space
> > > > using them. I understand that it's easier to teach people to use a
> > > pulldown
> > > > or an icon to start a command, but if you want to be fast, you use
the
> > > left
> > > > hand on the keyboard & right hand on the mouse. Call the tower for
> > > > clearance, because that's the way to really fly.... no offense
> > intended,
> > > > just replying to Mark Webb, IMHO.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Anonymous]

Agreed.

That being said, however, one of the most difficult things to teach in an
AutoCAD Level I class is to READ THE COMMAND LINE. I constantly have to
remind students to LOOK DOWN. As an example, I'll walk them through an
exercise where we're doing the MIRROR command. When we get to the last
prompt "Delete original object :", most of them stare dumbly at the
screen wondering why nothing has happened. I let them do that for about 30
seconds, then gently remind them to answer the question.

After a few knuckle-raps with my ruler they get the idea. (They don't call
me "Sister Matt" for nothing)

3D Studio VIZ actually has a small prompt area at the bottom of the screen,
but it could be a little more informative, I think.

In short, I agree - if the command line goes away, there should still be
some unobtrusive way of informing the user what they should be doing at a
particular point in the process.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Please do not email me privately with technical issues
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

Matt Dillon
Assistant Moderator: Autodesk Discussion Forums

http://www.dccadd.com


"William Fitzpatrick[Autodesk]" wrote in
message news:7455B6F8B007A679AA7BDAB7BE38448E@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I think one of the things that many overlook when considering this
question
> is that (especially for new AutoCad users) the command line is an online
> tutor of sorts....
>
> Command: line
> Specify first point:
> Specify next point or [Undo]:
> Specify next point or [Undo]:
>
> See how it leads you.... asking you to provide the correct input? Command
> line feedback is what is so valuable. I almost completely learned AutoCad
by
> just starting a command and then reading my way thru the prompts. Easy.
>
> Fitz
> William D. Fitzpatrick Jr.
> Autodesk BID
>
>
> "Matt Dillon" wrote in message
> news:FA754ABC03DA9CBCC9DEA5C521B6FDD4@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > For an example of keyboard access without a command line, take a look at
> VIZ
> > or MAX. In fact, you can even EASILY customize your keyboard command
> > shortcuts in VIZ, making all of the commands accessible by virtually any
> > keystroke combination you want. And those keyboard shortcuts can be
saved
> in
> > files analogous to user profiles in ADT/AutoCAD.
> >
> > --
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > --------
> > Please do not email me privately with technical issues
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > --------
> >
> > Matt Dillon
> > Assistant Moderator: Autodesk Discussion Forums
> >
> > http://www.dccadd.com
> >
> >
> > "Brian Harder" wrote in message
> > news:429872214206C15F9C0816791DA61F90@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > I'm not sure what the alternative to a command line would be and still
> > have
> > > keyboard access, so I'll disagree. Don't EVER lose the command line.
> > It's
> > > one of many things that makes AutoCAD BETTER then many of the other
> > products
> > > out there. At least keep it as an option.
> > >
> > > -Brian
> > >
> > > "mark webb, autodesk" wrote in message
> > > news:DC6C73A98BB4C4CF2807C87418158EF7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > Thanks, that was the kind of answer I expected.
> > > > Keyboard access (and QUICK keyboard access at that) is vital. Having
a
> > > > command line to enable this is not necessarily vital...
> > > >
> > > > Agreed/disagreed ?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > mark webb
> > > > software engineer
> > > > building industry division, autodesk
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "scott h" wrote in message
> > > > news:821F7364CC1E634425077376A78C1F09@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > Is it the command line that you love, or more the fact that >
you
> > have
> > > > > quick keyboard access to everything..?
> > > > > > This is an important distinction that maybe one day will
> > > > > > affect continued command line access.
> > > > >
> > > > > KEYBOARD command initiation needs to remain forever. Chasing
icons
> or
> > > > > pulldowns is a pain in the arse & it's slow. You waste time &
> screen
> > > > space
> > > > > using them. I understand that it's easier to teach people to use
a
> > > > pulldown
> > > > > or an icon to start a command, but if you want to be fast, you use
> the
> > > > left
> > > > > hand on the keyboard & right hand on the mouse. Call the tower
for
> > > > > clearance, because that's the way to really fly.... no offense
> > > intended,
> > > > > just replying to Mark Webb, IMHO.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Anonymous]

I've got my command line cut down to 2 lines now, could probably do without
altogether - except for the few commands that have a default setting, such
as "offset". PowerCad for the Mac OS has a nice trick where you can
control-click on the icon (damn, I just said the icon was nice - but
powercad is primarily icon based - although I forced it to allow my "command
key" customizations due to favoring the ACAD style commanding...) and you'll
get the command's 'options' dialogue box. If you click w/o holding the
control key - the command is initiated cleanly - and off you go. Otherwsie,
you could set it up a-la express tool - Qleader ("hit 'enter' key for
options" thus pulling up a dialog box).

All of this could be accomplished with a "wall" tool style pinup dialog box
for each command. You could shrink it or enlarge it. (I do realize that I
can detatch my current command line & re-size it.) In general, I think the
new R3 wall tool 'pinup' option is slick Other programs show the name of
the active command in the program header, which might make for an
interesting command line replacement....

I do like the right click options which are pertinent to a given command,
also. Perhaps allowing users an dumb (i.e. no programming required)
interface to customize the right click menu would be cool.

thanks for asking!

[Anonymous]

> I constantly find myself type ZE to zoom extents in PageMaker!!! You
can't beat that speed with icons or pulldowns.

same here, usually in ACDsee

[Anonymous]

Aaron,

are you aware of "accelerator keys" - menu customization?

[Anonymous]

I have found that many people resist change, myself include at times and
the command like is an old friend. I tend to force myself to try the
new ways for at least two weeks and after that I determine if I like it
or not. It is a matter of being efficient with the tools. The toolbars
are frankly just as fast combined with rt click context sensitive
commands than the keyboard, no complaints please it is just a matter of
what you are good at.

Many of our users could not stand the rt click changing from enter and
they immediately changed it back to enter. I did my two frustrating
weeks of trial and I guarantee you that I am faster now as a result of
giving it a chance and having it become second nature.

Using rt click you can virtually eliminate the command line with the
exception of entering coordinates and it allows you to keep your eyes up
on the screen in the working area.

Evan Larson
GLT Architects
www.gltarchitects.com

"mark webb, autodesk" wrote:
>
> Thanks, that was the kind of answer I expected.
> Keyboard access (and QUICK keyboard access at that) is vital. Having a
> command line to enable this is not necessarily vital...
>
> Agreed/disagreed ?
>
> --
> mark webb
> software engineer
> building industry division, autodesk
>

[Anonymous]

I compromised and set it to "Enter" for and repeat last command but use it
for Edit mode.

CJ


"Evan Larson" wrote in message
news:3B560C99.BF166E6@gltarchitects.com...
> I have found that many people resist change, myself include at times and
> the command like is an old friend. I tend to force myself to try the
> new ways for at least two weeks and after that I determine if I like it
> or not. It is a matter of being efficient with the tools. The toolbars
> are frankly just as fast combined with rt click context sensitive
> commands than the keyboard, no complaints please it is just a matter of
> what you are good at.
>
> Many of our users could not stand the rt click changing from enter and
> they immediately changed it back to enter. I did my two frustrating
> weeks of trial and I guarantee you that I am faster now as a result of
> giving it a chance and having it become second nature.
>
> Using rt click you can virtually eliminate the command line with the
> exception of entering coordinates and it allows you to keep your eyes up
> on the screen in the working area.
>
> Evan Larson
> GLT Architects
> www.gltarchitects.com
>
> "mark webb, autodesk" wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, that was the kind of answer I expected.
> > Keyboard access (and QUICK keyboard access at that) is vital. Having a
> > command line to enable this is not necessarily vital...
> >
> > Agreed/disagreed ?
> >
> > --
> > mark webb
> > software engineer
> > building industry division, autodesk
> >

[Anonymous]

But Revit can seamlessly create .dwg and .dgn files of sheets (with xrefs)
so your arguement has some holes. The important issue should be, "do your
consultants or owner expect a file produced with ADT?" If all they want is
2d linework in a .dwg or .dgn format Revit can give you that no sweat.

[Anonymous]

That is true.

Revit doesn't use xrefs so everything is in one file and that one file can
get to be pretty darn big. They even say that you shouldn't use it on
really large jobs yet.

[Anonymous]

I've used Revit some and have just started using (or trying to use) ADT3.

ADT has more potential power.. but then again AutoCAD's been around forever
and has the resources of a small country... it better have more potential.
I think if you give Revit a few more releases you'll see a real competitor
in the market. I personally found it extremely easy to use... so easy that
I think I could almost get my designers to use it. That will likely never
happen with ADT (not until some of the other products AutoDesk is looking to
release). It's kind of slow sometimes because everything is parametric so
when you change one thing it has to see what it effets. I personally don't
think it HAS to be a live update. As long as the change is made when I open
up the next view...

My firm has one copy of Revit out of several hundred of ADT so I'm not going
to get alot of play time. I've used it on one project for some quick
studies in 3D. It would have taken alot more time in ADT to generate the
same series of options but then I created .dwg files of the views and
haven't touched it sense.

[Anonymous]

What about the capabilities of 2d drafting (i.e., details) in ADT vs. Revit?

C


"Greg McDowell, Jr" wrote in message
news:3746A62A81DF92FF808F06E14D9D55B6@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I've used Revit some and have just started using (or trying to use) ADT3.
>
> ADT has more potential power.. but then again AutoCAD's been around
forever
> and has the resources of a small country... it better have more potential.
> I think if you give Revit a few more releases you'll see a real competitor
> in the market. I personally found it extremely easy to use... so easy
that
> I think I could almost get my designers to use it. That will likely never
> happen with ADT (not until some of the other products AutoDesk is looking
to
> release). It's kind of slow sometimes because everything is parametric so
> when you change one thing it has to see what it effets. I personally
don't
> think it HAS to be a live update. As long as the change is made when I
open
> up the next view...
>
> My firm has one copy of Revit out of several hundred of ADT so I'm not
going
> to get alot of play time. I've used it on one project for some quick
> studies in 3D. It would have taken alot more time in ADT to generate the
> same series of options but then I created .dwg files of the views and
> haven't touched it sense.
>
>

[Anonymous]

I haven't used ADT for detailing much but the out-of-the-box detail families
(another word for block type elements) is really good. I found what little
detailing I did to be pretty slick. I'll post a series of .pdf files that
somebody did using Revit. Keep in mind when you look at the details that
most of the work is a block that's been inserted and stretched and is still
intelligent.

[Anonymous]

Greg -

If you look on your Architectural Desktop CD, you will find a directory
called Details. This will install a full detailing program. Due to it
using slightly dated technology, and some other issues, it is not
automatically installed, but instead is available as an option.
Nonetheless, it is pretty powerful...take a look. 🙂

--
chris yanchar
building industry division
autodesk, inc.


"Greg McDowell, Jr" wrote in message
news:3BC8D8C5D1F530B54296021E41870325@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I haven't used ADT for detailing much but the out-of-the-box detail
families
> (another word for block type elements) is really good. I found what
little
> detailing I did to be pretty slick. I'll post a series of .pdf files that
> somebody did using Revit. Keep in mind when you look at the details that
> most of the work is a block that's been inserted and stretched and is
still
> intelligent.
>
>

[Anonymous]

AHA!!! Finally I get a chance to cry my rally! To quote mark webb: "..keyboard access (and QUICK keyboard access) is vital...". YESSIREE--so why is it that, in the "Express Tools" currently available for $149 does not include the "command alias editor"? With it, one can assign keyboard shortcuts to frequently used commands so that they are available on the LEFT side of the keyboard so that your left hand can enter commands and your right hand can do all of the mouse stuff, making drawing as fast as possible. So why isn't this command made available unless you HAPPEN to have the VIP Bonus Tools CD? You can't have mine because I keep it in a bank vault in Switzerland so nyah!
Also, on the "command line" question--it's like a comapss: "where am I now?" and when you get as old as me, you'll really appreciate that--I wish it was in VIZ too--maybe change the size or location or make it, like our beloved "Active Assistant", with settings to turn it off for young whipper-snappers with all their marbles rolling--but lose the command line=lose my mind, as far s I'm concerned.

[Anonymous]

alas... another thing i'll have to get the IT staff to install... sigh...

[Anonymous]

Seamlessly, hmmmm......sounds a bit like "propaganda". Can't possibly be
"seamless". Maybe "pretty close to seamless".

--
Regards
----------------------
Reid M. Addis / Addis Computer Consultants
phone: 1-800-841-4418 fax: 1-610-668-8828
web site: http://www.addiscomputer.com
e-mail: raddis@addiscomputer.com
"Greg McDowell, Jr" wrote in message
news:C112A55C1FA64D007822AB49D32FD350@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> But Revit can seamlessly create .dwg and .dgn files of sheets (with xrefs)
> so your arguement has some holes. The important issue should be, "do your
> consultants or owner expect a file produced with ADT?" If all they want
is
> 2d linework in a .dwg or .dgn format Revit can give you that no sweat.
>
>

[Anonymous]

Greg,

Your IT staff shouldn't have to be bothered by this. Other than to have them
put the contents of the Details directory on the CD up on a network drive
where it can be accessed by your users.

Then simply have your users double click on the SETUP.EXE file in that
directory and accept the defaults. It takes about... 30-60 seconds and
you're done. You don't even have to reboot. 🙂


--
***************************************************************
Please do not email me privately with technical issues
***************************************************************
Matt Dillon
Assistant Moderator - Autodesk Discussion Forums

The D.C. CADD Company, Inc.
http://www.dccadd.com
Greg McDowell, Jr wrote in message ...
>alas... another thing i'll have to get the IT staff to install... sigh...
>
>

[Anonymous]

Mindy,

The keyboard entry ability and speed is so important that the command Alias
Editor is now built into core AutoCAD in the CUSTOMIZE command. You must
have an old Express Tools volume as I downloaded my volume 1-9 from the
VIP website and it has ALIASEDIT. The command Alias Editor is also in the
Express Tools for sale on the eStore as well as free to VIP subscribers.

Sincerely,

Shaan Hurley (proud keyboard pounder)
Autodesk Beta Programs
http://betaprograms.autodesk.com


"mindybeede" wrote in message
news:f06860d.35@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
AHA!!! Finally I get a chance to cry my rally! To quote mark webb:
"..keyboard access (and QUICK keyboard access) is vital...". YESSIREE--so
why is it that, in the "Express Tools" currently available for $149 does not
include the "command alias editor"? With it, one can assign keyboard
shortcuts to frequently used commands so that they are available on the LEFT
side of the keyboard so that your left hand can enter commands and your
right hand can do all of the mouse stuff, making drawing as fast as
possible. So why isn't this command made available unless you HAPPEN to have
the VIP Bonus Tools CD? You can't have mine because I keep it in a bank
vault in Switzerland so nyah!
Also, on the "command line" question--it's like a comapss: "where am I now?"
and when you get as old as me, you'll really appreciate that--I wish it was
in VIZ too--maybe change the size or location or make it, like our beloved
"Active Assistant", with settings to turn it off for young whipper-snappers
with all their marbles rolling--but lose the command line=lose my mind, as
far s I'm concerned.