P&ID Project vs Plant 3D project

[fatherof3]

Hey everyone

We have a seat of Autodesk PID and a seat of Autodesk Plant 3D (both 2017).

We are beginning a new project. A PID project was already created, and it has some stuff customized for our PID requirements. What exactly, I don't know, I did not do the work on the PID customization.

I am attempting to set up a Plant 3D project. I can open the PID project in Plant 3D (some of you probably already know the rest of the story), but when I attempt to go into the Project Setup, I get an error message that basically says the project is missing the "PIDTo3dClassMapping.xml" file.

There are also a couple of other xml files missing in the PID project folder, but they haven't caused any error messages. And I can copy the "PIDTo3dClassMapping.xml" file into this PID project, and the error disappears.

But, I'm thinking there has to be a better way, or we have some other things that were not done correctly during the creation of the PID project.

Is there, in fact, a difference in the project structure between a PID and Plant 3d project?

Is there something I should be doing that would allow us to keep the customized PID settings, but have them seamlessly work in a Plant 3D project?

Thank you.

[fatherof3]

Hey everyone

We have a seat of Autodesk PID and a seat of Autodesk Plant 3D (both 2017).

We are beginning a new project. A PID project was already created, and it has some stuff customized for our PID requirements. What exactly, I don't know, I did not do the work on the PID customization.

I am attempting to set up a Plant 3D project. I can open the PID project in Plant 3D (some of you probably already know the rest of the story), but when I attempt to go into the Project Setup, I get an error message that basically says the project is missing the "PIDTo3dClassMapping.xml" file.

There are also a couple of other xml files missing in the PID project folder, but they haven't caused any error messages. And I can copy the "PIDTo3dClassMapping.xml" file into this PID project, and the error disappears.

But, I'm thinking there has to be a better way, or we have some other things that were not done correctly during the creation of the PID project.

Is there, in fact, a difference in the project structure between a PID and Plant 3d project?

Is there something I should be doing that would allow us to keep the customized PID settings, but have them seamlessly work in a Plant 3D project?

Thank you.

[h_eger]

Is there, in fact, a difference in the project structure between a PID and Plant 3d project? 
YES

If you are working with Plant P & ID and Plant 3D, the project must be created with Plant 3D.
All files created for P & ID and 3D are created.
If the project is created with P & ID, there are problems with 3D.
Solution: I must first test this situation.

[h_eger]

Is there, in fact, a difference in the project structure between a PID and Plant 3d project? 
YES

If you are working with Plant P & ID and Plant 3D, the project must be created with Plant 3D.
All files created for P & ID and 3D are created.
If the project is created with P & ID, there are problems with 3D.
Solution: I must first test this situation.

[Dadspackard]

Hi fatherof3,

I have not tested this but what if you created a new project in Plant3D then use the Copy Drawing to Project from the current AutoCAD P&ID project.

Tom

[Dadspackard]

Hi fatherof3,

I have not tested this but what if you created a new project in Plant3D then use the Copy Drawing to Project from the current AutoCAD P&ID project.

Tom

[fatherof3]

Hi Hartmut and Tom,

Thank you very much for the replies.

We haven't yet created any P&ID's for this project, there was just some work done at the project setup level in the P&ID software. Now I am charged with setting up the Plant 3D side

We have used both software packages before, but they were both done in their own separate worlds.

For this project, we want to integrate them together so the PID's drive the piping.

So we are at the very early stages of this project.

What I am having a hard time with is grasping the work flow and coordinating the two packages together.

Is it as simple as having a separate P&ID project, using the P&ID software, and a separate project for the Plant 3D software, and just setting the project path in the Plant 3D software to the P&ID drawing directory? And setting the P&ID software to use the Pipe Specs that are used in the Plant 3D project?

I'm not sure if this would allow for setting up the "Pipe Spec Object Mapping", and what kind of issues that would cause if we wanted to change the P&ID drawing within Plant 3D.

I'm sure there are lots of you out there who have the same situation, I would appreciate hearing how your workflow and projects are set up.

Thanks!

[fatherof3]

Hi Hartmut and Tom,

Thank you very much for the replies.

We haven't yet created any P&ID's for this project, there was just some work done at the project setup level in the P&ID software. Now I am charged with setting up the Plant 3D side

We have used both software packages before, but they were both done in their own separate worlds.

For this project, we want to integrate them together so the PID's drive the piping.

So we are at the very early stages of this project.

What I am having a hard time with is grasping the work flow and coordinating the two packages together.

Is it as simple as having a separate P&ID project, using the P&ID software, and a separate project for the Plant 3D software, and just setting the project path in the Plant 3D software to the P&ID drawing directory? And setting the P&ID software to use the Pipe Specs that are used in the Plant 3D project?

I'm not sure if this would allow for setting up the "Pipe Spec Object Mapping", and what kind of issues that would cause if we wanted to change the P&ID drawing within Plant 3D.

I'm sure there are lots of you out there who have the same situation, I would appreciate hearing how your workflow and projects are set up.

Thanks!

[TomislavGolubovic]

Have you tried creating a new P3D project based on the template of the P&ID project?

[TomislavGolubovic]

Have you tried creating a new P3D project based on the template of the P&ID project?

[Attila.Vallyon]

Dear fatherof3!

I am the responsible of the Plant 3D in my company. For financial considerations we have workstations for full Plant 3D versions and P&ID versions too. I set up and maintain the project settings and created the template project. I use the full Plant 3D to do so, because it includes the P&ID settings too.

If you want to handle the two package together,I suggest to set up a template project in the ful Plant 3D and use the for both versions.

Probably you have to change your project setting to include the P&ID settings too, but that is the best way. And whenewer you create a new project use the full Plant 3D, and the P&ID colleagues can continue with the created project.

[Attila.Vallyon]

Dear fatherof3!

I am the responsible of the Plant 3D in my company. For financial considerations we have workstations for full Plant 3D versions and P&ID versions too. I set up and maintain the project settings and created the template project. I use the full Plant 3D to do so, because it includes the P&ID settings too.

If you want to handle the two package together,I suggest to set up a template project in the ful Plant 3D and use the for both versions.

Probably you have to change your project setting to include the P&ID settings too, but that is the best way. And whenewer you create a new project use the full Plant 3D, and the P&ID colleagues can continue with the created project.

[fatherof3]

Hello Tomislav,

I have tried, thru the project wizard in Plant 3D, to create a new project by copying the settings from the .xml file that was created in the PID software.

The problem I run into there is the new project will probably use either imperial (inches) or mixed units, and when it comes to choosing the units for this new project, that option is grayed out and only available in metric units.

Thanks for your response.

[fatherof3]

Hello Tomislav,

I have tried, thru the project wizard in Plant 3D, to create a new project by copying the settings from the .xml file that was created in the PID software.

The problem I run into there is the new project will probably use either imperial (inches) or mixed units, and when it comes to choosing the units for this new project, that option is grayed out and only available in metric units.

Thanks for your response.

[fatherof3]

Hello Attila

Yes, that sounds like the proper workflow.

I'm not sure how much setup and customization was done in the PID software. I know there has been some, since we acquired P&ID about 2 years ahead of Plant 3D. My colleague who set this up is out of the office for the next several days, so I will know more when he returns.

In the meantime, is there a way to just copy some files out of the P&ID project into a Plant 3D project to bring the customization into Plant 3D? And still have everything function ok?

I attempted to create a new Plant 3D project by using the P&ID project.xml file as a basis, but that workflow doesn't allow me to change the project units, which in this case needs to done.

Thanks for your reply and the assistance.

[fatherof3]

Hello Attila

Yes, that sounds like the proper workflow.

I'm not sure how much setup and customization was done in the PID software. I know there has been some, since we acquired P&ID about 2 years ahead of Plant 3D. My colleague who set this up is out of the office for the next several days, so I will know more when he returns.

In the meantime, is there a way to just copy some files out of the P&ID project into a Plant 3D project to bring the customization into Plant 3D? And still have everything function ok?

I attempted to create a new Plant 3D project by using the P&ID project.xml file as a basis, but that workflow doesn't allow me to change the project units, which in this case needs to done.

Thanks for your reply and the assistance.

[Anonymous]

The reason why creating a plant 3d project from a P&ID xml file will not work is that not all the xml files are created in a P&ID project. If you created a a P&ID project and a Plant 3D project and looked at the structure side by side you would notice the difference. if you have an xml editor and you were to open up the project .xml of both the p&id and the plant 3d project you would notice a difference in how the xml's are writen

[Anonymous]

The reason why creating a plant 3d project from a P&ID xml file will not work is that not all the xml files are created in a P&ID project. If you created a a P&ID project and a Plant 3D project and looked at the structure side by side you would notice the difference. if you have an xml editor and you were to open up the project .xml of both the p&id and the plant 3d project you would notice a difference in how the xml's are writen

[fatherof3]

Hi John,

Yeah, thanks, I discovered that yesterday when I tried to edit the project from inside Plant 3D.

My goal now is to figure out if there is an easy way to capture all the customization that was done earlier in the P&ID software, and transport that into the P3D software, maybe by just copying the correct files from P&ID to P3D? If not, then we have to duplicate that effort into the P3D software.

I would assume this is not a big deal for the "projSymbolStyle.dwg", but maybe for the other .xml files, and whatever other files may be involved, a bit more unlikely to work.

And I also need to figure out the workflow if we were to setup a P3D project, and someone with just the P&ID software (and not P3D) were to work on this same project, on a computer not connected to our internal server, how does that work?

[fatherof3]

Hi John,

Yeah, thanks, I discovered that yesterday when I tried to edit the project from inside Plant 3D.

My goal now is to figure out if there is an easy way to capture all the customization that was done earlier in the P&ID software, and transport that into the P3D software, maybe by just copying the correct files from P&ID to P3D? If not, then we have to duplicate that effort into the P3D software.

I would assume this is not a big deal for the "projSymbolStyle.dwg", but maybe for the other .xml files, and whatever other files may be involved, a bit more unlikely to work.

And I also need to figure out the workflow if we were to setup a P3D project, and someone with just the P&ID software (and not P3D) were to work on this same project, on a computer not connected to our internal server, how does that work?

[ryan.bales]

While it may be possible, I would bet a fair amount that even if it worked it would be a real pain to get them melded cleanly. It would likely be best to start over with Plant 3D and copy the customization over.

There is a lot they share in common, xml's, dcf's etc. and separating them out in order to replace the P&ID specific elements of a Plant 3D project would not likely be possible. You could likely copy the blocks from one symbolstyles dwg to another and then rebuild those elements in Plant 3D Project setup.

[ryan.bales]

While it may be possible, I would bet a fair amount that even if it worked it would be a real pain to get them melded cleanly. It would likely be best to start over with Plant 3D and copy the customization over.

There is a lot they share in common, xml's, dcf's etc. and separating them out in order to replace the P&ID specific elements of a Plant 3D project would not likely be possible. You could likely copy the blocks from one symbolstyles dwg to another and then rebuild those elements in Plant 3D Project setup.

[fatherof3]

Maybe I'm being stupid about understanding how Plant 3D and P&ID can (or cannot) work together on a project. And to be clear, I'm talking about two separate software packages, and not the P&ID function that is contained within Plant 3D.

If working on the same project, is there any downside to having a P3D project.xml file setup that would be used exclusively for creating the piping drawings, and a totally separate P&ID project.xml file (using standalone Autodesk P&ID) that is used exclusively for creating P&ID drawings?

This is the workflow that we have used in the past. The downside to this, or at least the way we performed our work in this office, was that there was no data exchange between the P&ID software and the P3D software. When we created the piping models, all data (meaning tag numbers, pipe line numbers, pipe size, pipe spec, etc. etc.) was entered manually into the P3D models, using the hard-copy P&IDs.

We hope to be a little more efficient with future projects. I'm repeating here from my original post, but we have customized our standalone P&ID setup. We have never used the P&ID function that is internal to the P3D software.

Assume we continue as we have in the past, with (2) separate products, P&ID and Plant 3D, does this type of workflow allow the following:

1) Spec-driven P&ID creation, using the same Spec Sheets as the Plant 3D project will be using?
2) Using the P&ID valve and pipe line information to populate the piping and valve information as the piping is created in Plant 3D?
3) Mapping?
4) Validation?

If that workflow doesn't provide those capabilities, but would require a project that would be setup in Plant 3D (with all the P&ID customization that we have done previously re-entered into the Plant 3D project), then I have the following questions:

1) Can we use the standalone P&ID software to create and edit the P&IDs that will be used inside the Plant 3D project?
2) Does using the standalone P&ID software with the Plant 3D project require duplicating the setup and data that is contained in the Plant 3D project, into the standalone P&ID software?
3) Will it be possible to use the standalone P&ID software to edit the P&ID drawings if the P&ID software is on a laptop that is not connected to the company server (but would contain any P&ID drawing files)? We are not using the vault.

Thanks in advance!

[fatherof3]

Maybe I'm being stupid about understanding how Plant 3D and P&ID can (or cannot) work together on a project. And to be clear, I'm talking about two separate software packages, and not the P&ID function that is contained within Plant 3D.

If working on the same project, is there any downside to having a P3D project.xml file setup that would be used exclusively for creating the piping drawings, and a totally separate P&ID project.xml file (using standalone Autodesk P&ID) that is used exclusively for creating P&ID drawings?

This is the workflow that we have used in the past. The downside to this, or at least the way we performed our work in this office, was that there was no data exchange between the P&ID software and the P3D software. When we created the piping models, all data (meaning tag numbers, pipe line numbers, pipe size, pipe spec, etc. etc.) was entered manually into the P3D models, using the hard-copy P&IDs.

We hope to be a little more efficient with future projects. I'm repeating here from my original post, but we have customized our standalone P&ID setup. We have never used the P&ID function that is internal to the P3D software.

Assume we continue as we have in the past, with (2) separate products, P&ID and Plant 3D, does this type of workflow allow the following:

1) Spec-driven P&ID creation, using the same Spec Sheets as the Plant 3D project will be using?
2) Using the P&ID valve and pipe line information to populate the piping and valve information as the piping is created in Plant 3D?
3) Mapping?
4) Validation?

If that workflow doesn't provide those capabilities, but would require a project that would be setup in Plant 3D (with all the P&ID customization that we have done previously re-entered into the Plant 3D project), then I have the following questions:

1) Can we use the standalone P&ID software to create and edit the P&IDs that will be used inside the Plant 3D project?
2) Does using the standalone P&ID software with the Plant 3D project require duplicating the setup and data that is contained in the Plant 3D project, into the standalone P&ID software?
3) Will it be possible to use the standalone P&ID software to edit the P&ID drawings if the P&ID software is on a laptop that is not connected to the company server (but would contain any P&ID drawing files)? We are not using the vault.

Thanks in advance!

[ryan.bales · Accepted solution]

You may be overthinking it a little. Really if you want P&ID and Plant 3D to work succinctly you would create the project in Plant 3D. P&ID projects can open the Plant 3D project with the explicit intent on editing the P&ID's and NOT the 3D models - you cannot edit the 3D setup from P&ID. 

---

@fatherof3 wrote:

Maybe I'm being stupid about understanding how Plant 3D and P&ID can (or cannot) work together on a project. And to be clear, I'm talking about two separate software packages, and not the P&ID function that is contained within Plant 3D.

---

---

We hope to be a little more efficient with future projects. I'm repeating here from my original post, but we have customized our standalone P&ID setup. We have never used the P&ID function that is internal to the P3D software.

---

For all intensive purposes when discussing Plant 3D we automatically include the P&ID portion. It will be helpful to think of P&ID as though its really just a stripped down version of Plant 3D OR Plant without 3D modeling and only the P&ID portion. It would be incorrect to think of Plant as P&ID+. Even though P&ID came first its been more or less grouped under Plant 3D and is a stripped own version. Because of this you will only need one project with the setup for both 3D and P&ID together. 

---

If working on the same project, is there any downside to having a P3D project.xml file setup that would be used exclusively for creating the piping drawings, and a totally separate P&ID project.xml file (using standalone Autodesk P&ID) that is used exclusively for creating P&ID drawings?

---

Yes! Having two project.xml's means you have TWO projects. There is no functionality between separate projects. They are perfectly separated in every way meaning you can copy a project a hundred times and have everything duplicated and Plant/P&ID does not care. If you want them to be connected you'll need to use one single project created through Plant 3D first. 

---

Assume we continue as we have in the past, with (2) separate products, P&ID and Plant 3D, does this type of workflow allow the following:

1) Spec-driven P&ID creation, using the same Spec Sheets as the Plant 3D project will be using?
2) Using the P&ID valve and pipe line information to populate the piping and valve information as the piping is created in Plant 3D?
3) Mapping?
4) Validation?

---

In short, NO it does not allow you do to any of that if you are using separate projects.

---

If that workflow doesn't provide those capabilities, but would require a project that would be setup in Plant 3D (with all the P&ID customization that we have done previously re-entered into the Plant 3D project), then I have the following questions:

1) Can we use the standalone P&ID software to create and edit the P&IDs that will be used inside the Plant 3D project?
2) Does using the standalone P&ID software with the Plant 3D project require duplicating the setup and data that is contained in the Plant 3D project, into the standalone P&ID software?
3) Will it be possible to use the standalone P&ID software to edit the P&ID drawings if the P&ID software is on a laptop that is not connected to the company server (but would contain any P&ID drawing files)? We are not using the vault.

---

1. Yes!
2. No, you would simply open the P3D project and utilize only the P&ID setting and drawings.
3. Yes and no, you could do but it is not proper practice and can and will result in lost data.

[ryan.bales · Accepted solution]

You may be overthinking it a little. Really if you want P&ID and Plant 3D to work succinctly you would create the project in Plant 3D. P&ID projects can open the Plant 3D project with the explicit intent on editing the P&ID's and NOT the 3D models - you cannot edit the 3D setup from P&ID. 

---

@fatherof3 wrote:

Maybe I'm being stupid about understanding how Plant 3D and P&ID can (or cannot) work together on a project. And to be clear, I'm talking about two separate software packages, and not the P&ID function that is contained within Plant 3D.

---

---

We hope to be a little more efficient with future projects. I'm repeating here from my original post, but we have customized our standalone P&ID setup. We have never used the P&ID function that is internal to the P3D software.

---

For all intensive purposes when discussing Plant 3D we automatically include the P&ID portion. It will be helpful to think of P&ID as though its really just a stripped down version of Plant 3D OR Plant without 3D modeling and only the P&ID portion. It would be incorrect to think of Plant as P&ID+. Even though P&ID came first its been more or less grouped under Plant 3D and is a stripped own version. Because of this you will only need one project with the setup for both 3D and P&ID together. 

---

If working on the same project, is there any downside to having a P3D project.xml file setup that would be used exclusively for creating the piping drawings, and a totally separate P&ID project.xml file (using standalone Autodesk P&ID) that is used exclusively for creating P&ID drawings?

---

Yes! Having two project.xml's means you have TWO projects. There is no functionality between separate projects. They are perfectly separated in every way meaning you can copy a project a hundred times and have everything duplicated and Plant/P&ID does not care. If you want them to be connected you'll need to use one single project created through Plant 3D first. 

---

Assume we continue as we have in the past, with (2) separate products, P&ID and Plant 3D, does this type of workflow allow the following:

1) Spec-driven P&ID creation, using the same Spec Sheets as the Plant 3D project will be using?
2) Using the P&ID valve and pipe line information to populate the piping and valve information as the piping is created in Plant 3D?
3) Mapping?
4) Validation?

---

In short, NO it does not allow you do to any of that if you are using separate projects.

---

If that workflow doesn't provide those capabilities, but would require a project that would be setup in Plant 3D (with all the P&ID customization that we have done previously re-entered into the Plant 3D project), then I have the following questions:

1) Can we use the standalone P&ID software to create and edit the P&IDs that will be used inside the Plant 3D project?
2) Does using the standalone P&ID software with the Plant 3D project require duplicating the setup and data that is contained in the Plant 3D project, into the standalone P&ID software?
3) Will it be possible to use the standalone P&ID software to edit the P&ID drawings if the P&ID software is on a laptop that is not connected to the company server (but would contain any P&ID drawing files)? We are not using the vault.

---

1. Yes!
2. No, you would simply open the P3D project and utilize only the P&ID setting and drawings.
3. Yes and no, you could do but it is not proper practice and can and will result in lost data.

[fatherof3]

Thank you very much, Ryan, that is the information I needed.

[fatherof3]

Thank you very much, Ryan, that is the information I needed.

[ryan.bales]

Of course!

[ryan.bales]

Of course!