Newbie Instrument Question

[Phil]

OK so this is all new so please forgive the basic Qs.

When placing an instrument in a P&ID, should it not pick up the line number of the line it is placed on and display this in Data Manager?

I have tried this with both a standard out-of-the-box instrument and also a customised one and neither pick up the line number.

Am I missing something here?

Thanks

Phil

[Dadspackard]

Hi Phil,

In Data Manager upper left there is a pull down. Under the pull down you shall see Project Reports. Select it.

Then in the tree you should see 9 reports that are out of box. There is one for instrument list.

[Phil]

Hi Dadspackard

Yes I have found the Data Manager table displaying the various instrument attributes.

The bit that seems to be missing is the instrument's ability to pick up its location.  I (perhaps naively) expected that an instrument attached to a process line via an instrument leader would actually store the process line number as its location.

Am I expecting too much here or am I missing something obvious.

Thanks

Phil

[Anonymous]

We dont use the leaders but use a section of pipeline to connect the instrument. The leader has no inherent intelligence attached to it.

[Dadspackard]

Hi Phil,

I created Location1 and acquired the TAG from Pipe Line Segment.

This is using the leader as when you are placing the instrument.

Only thing about using this leader is you can not add valves to it.

Is this something you are looking for?

Or another option is to place the instrument with out leader. Then from the line tag on the Tool Palette under Instrument Lines you can place the leader manually. This leader line you can place a valve on.

For this one I created Location2 and acquired the TAG from the Leader line.

\

Capture of the acquistion I added.

If need further assistance please let us know.

Tom

[Phil]

Hi Tom

Many thanks for comprehensive explanation.

Unfortunately, being a mega-noob, I haven't made the progress this help deserves!

I have added the Location1 field in Project Setup to our Field Disc Instrument and set it to "Leader.From" - OK

I have positioned the instrument close to a process line and connected it using the default leader from a snap node on the instrument to a perp on the line - OK

If I check the properties of the leader it includes To and From fields with associated tag numbers.  The To field displays the process line number - OK

But the From field (i. e. the instrument end of the leader) displays a kind of generic unpopulated line tag 4-?-510/004-?-1 - not sure about this.

In any event, there are string values in both To and From fields, so I would expect the instrument properties to reflect this.

However, looking in the properties of the instrument, the Location1 field now exists but displays just a question mark.  Clicking the lightening symbol shows that the field is set to Acquire mode from "Leader.From".

So I don't see why the Location1 field isn't actually acquiring!

Also with regard to leaders, I got the impression from your post that it should be possible to introduce an Auto-Leader between the instrument and the process line, but couldn't work out how.  If that could work and Location1 be populated in the instrument properties then we would be part way there.

I looked at the reporting side.  In General Settings, Reports, Instrument List, Modify, but couldn't find Location1 as an option to add to the Instrument List report.  Does this have to be registered elsewhere to make it available?

Finally (for now) I tried to create a secondary pipe line type without arrows so that I could try linking the instrument to the line with plain pipe.

When I try to place pipe in the drawing nothing appears!

If you can make any sense of the above ramblings and could give any further pointers it would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Phil

[Dadspackard]

Hi Phil,

Not a work at the moment and won't be back until Monday. So this is from memory.

You are close

For the LEADER.FROM acquisition you need to place the leader (not the defaul leeader) from the Tool Palette, Line, Instrument lines.

When you place that leader you need to select the process line first then the Instr Bubble.

And yes for the Instrument List you will need to modify the report and add our newly created Location1.

You need to go into Project Manager and at top of the tree you should see a selection for editing Reports.

I would go further to help but without Plant here at home I don't want to lead you down the wromg path,

When I get back in the office on Monday I can create a screen cast and a word doc of my steps and follow up with then.

Have a great day

Tom

[Phil]

Hi Tom

Thanks for your not-at-work input!

Yes I got the leader working - it might have been the order of selection, line-symbol or symbol-line.  Just out of interest, I have set the aquisition field for the line number to be leader.to as I find it more intuitive to place the leader at the symbol snap point first.

Not so successful with the report issue unfortunately.

Went to Project Setup - General Settings - Reports and selected Instrument List.

Clicked Modify button - Expanded P&ID Object Properties - Instrumentation but the Location1 field that we need is not listed.

CLAATTTERR - that's me falling at another hurdle!

Yes if you could elaborate a bit it would be greatly appreciated.

Regret to say I have another instrument related conundrum to follow, but won't muddy the waters at this stage.

Thanks again and have a good weekend

Phil

[Dadspackard]

Hi Phil,

Glad to hear you got it to work.

For your report I will need to get back to you on Monday if that is ok?

I think you may be better served if these are P&ID related question you may want to post over here
AUTOCAD P&ID GENERAL DISCUSSION

Have a great weekend

Tom

[PeterQuinn]

You are certainly welcome to continue posting P&ID questions here.

[Dadspackard]

Hi Peter,

My bad. I did not mean it anyway for him not to post here. I just wanted to point out there is a P&ID forum also.

Tom

[Phil]

Hi Tom

Trying to pick this up again this morning, but still can't find the Location1 field as an option to add to my Instrument report.

One thought I had was that maybe the Location1 field had to be added at a higher folder level, at the moment this field has been added to a single instrument only.

Don't really want to make this change though because if I am wrong, I will be faced with individually removing the field from every instrument to allow it to be purged.

Yes if you can provide further guidance it would be greatly appreciated

Phil

[Dadspackard]

Hi Phil,

Yes the new Location1 should be created at the higher folder level in order for it to show up in in the Report.

After looking at this closer. We will use the Default Location and add an acquisition at the single instrument level like you did with Location1.

This Screen Cast is for Acquisition for instrument location using the default leader

This screen cast is using the leader line from the Lines/Instrument Lines.

Acquisition for instrument location using leader from Tool Pallete

I found that these Acquisitions only work for me when I place an new Instrument.

Does anyone here know how to get existing instruments to read it?  Thanks

Hope these help and what you are looking for.

 Tom

[Phil]

Hi Tom

The procedure you have shown for adding an Aquisition to the location field looks ideal for our instruments that do not require valves.

For some reason though, our standard out-of-the-box instruments and therefore our customised instruments do not appear with an automated leader.  Is there a setting somewhere to enable this?

Trying to place an instrument without this does not appear to pick up the pipe line tag whether connected with a pipe or with a manually placed instrument leader.

Thanks

Phil

[Dadspackard]

Only way I know of placing the leader is by following the prompts when placing the instrument

Specify insertion point, [Leader], or cycle next attachment [Point] <P>: L
Attach leader to instrument symbol? [Yes/No]<No>: Y

If there is a setting somewhere to have it place it by default I am not sure where to set it at.

Does anyone here know if there is a setting for this?

Tom

[Phil]

Hi Tom

Thanks for your help with this and ignore the last post about missing leader lines.

I was committing the most cardinal of sins and not looking at the ACAD command line!

Selecting L for leader when placing our instrument works correctly and also populates the Location field in the instrument properties and Data Manager as required.

Your patience is appreciated!

As for the next issue with valved instruments, I think this should be the subject of a new thread.

Phil

[Dadspackard]

Hi Phil,

You are most welcome and thank you for the kudos.

Tom