Dynamic block updating delayed using AMPP

[rapidcad]

Hi all,

At our company, we are moving more and more users to AutoCAD Mechanical 2016 from AutoCAD 2016 due to the need of some tools to access the mechanical layer manager tools. in the process, I have found that our dynamic blocks work, but not efficiently when using the AMPP profile. If we use the Vanilla profile, they work perfectly, just like they do in a regular installation of AutoCAD 2016.

The inefficiency I speak of is best explained as a failure to update graphics. If I stretch a grip of an XY parameter, the dynamic block in this drawing will correctly stretch the geometry, however, the grips that should move and the associative dimensions that should update remain where they were previously positioned, until the user deselects and reselects the block, or deselects and issues a regen command manually. I have checked settings, regenauto is on.

If you use the Vanilla profile or regular AutoCAD 2016 (or any version for that matter) the block behaves perfectly, updating as  it should graphically. This is not an isolated block, all my dynamic blocks do this in the AMPP profile.

What is going on in the background in AMPP that causes this? is there a setting that might be responsible?

Use the vertical stretch in this dynamic block to see what I am talking about (stretches the geometry diagonally).

Any help greatly appreciated.

[cheryl.buck]

Hi @rapidcad,

Thank you for sharing your file, I was able to test it in both programs and am seeing the difference in behavior. I found this Autodesk Knowledge Network (AKN) article: 

Stretch grip of AutoCAD dynamic block does not stay at the corner

Please let me know if it helps. 

In my experience of creating dynamic blocks, I discovered that AutoCAD is more forgiving than AutoCAD Mechanical is, particularly with blocks that were not fully constrained. But I have seen this behavior in both products. This block does not appear to be fully contained, so this could also be a possibility.  

If a post was helpful, Likes are always welcome.

Please Accept As Solution any post(s) that answer your question or solve the problem.

All the best,

[cheryl.buck]

Hi @rapidcad,

I am checking back to see if the article I shared was helpful. Please post an update letting the community know if you were able to resolve the issue.

All the best,

[rapidcad]

Thank you so much Cheryl, for looking at this and for posting the possible solution. While I appreciate it, I do not think that it applies in this situation. Chaining is not used in this block because it works correctly without it  and it fails to work correctly when manipulating the block via insertion code. Over the years I have found that chaining makes flip parameters impossible to use (which I opted to eventually skip in this block as well) since flip parameters, when fired usually inadvertently fire many of the chained parameters even though they may not be linked into the chaining action.

I was able to get this block to work correctly in Vanilla (I developed it using AutoCAD 2011, not Mechanical), by using trigonometric factors on the stretch plane angle offset property in the property editor. As you stretch the vertical stretch parameter, (there is a different one for each angle value), the stretch action for each parameter is activated using an offset equal to the inverse of the sine of the angle involved, stretching the objects exactly along the intended angular path - no chaining or further stretches are required.

The reason I know that the issue is not connected to chaining (or lack thereof) is that the associative dimension object fails to properly update unless the block is gripped and ungripped, or unless a regen is issued. Those associative dimensions should update due to actions put in place by Autodesk in the background (likely some kind of advanced reactor), independent of the stretching done to the geometry done by manipulating the stretch parameters. I believe that some (similar to reactor) code is working in AutoCAD Mechanical in the background (possibly that which scales and hides object geometry as it simulates 3D view angles) which has the side effect of paralyzing updating of dynamic blocks. That's my theory, but I do not know enough about AutoCAD Mechanical to pinpoint it. 

[cheryl.buck]

Hi @rapidcad ,

I appreciate your patience. I have reached out to the product team on this issue and will get back to you with an update in the next couple business days.

All the best,

[rapidcad]

Thanks for keeping up with this Cheryl. I am not familiar with all that Mechanical is doing in the background to manage the hiding of elements, so I've been wondering if there could be something only found in Mechanical that is interfering with our dynamic blocks. We have not seen this behavior in any version of AutoCAD going back to AutoCAD 2010.

[cheryl.buck]

Hi @rapidcad ,

My experience has been the same, I tested your file in several versions and releases of AutoCAD based products and am only seeing the issue in Mechanical. 

I do apologize for the delay in providing any insight, I will plan to get back with you in the next couple business days with an update on what I know. 

All the best, 

[rapidcad]

Thanks for keeping me apprised Cheryl. Thankfully we aren't quite ready to roll Mechanical out to every user yet, so I have a little time to sort this out. 

[cheryl.buck]

Hi @rapidcad,

I really appreciate your patience! I got word back that they are not aware of a difference in how AutoCAD and Mechanical function in this regard, and are looking into your block to see if it is specific to how your block was built. 

They or I will get back to you as soon as we learn something. 

All the best, 

[rapidcad]

Thanks Cheryl. So far I haven't been able to find anything that would make the same delay in AutoCAD, only Mechanical. Let me know if they find anything. I would put in a support request through the ADN (since I am a member) but my last experience with requesting support was less than supportive, actually and I am finding more help with the forums.

[cheryl.buck]

Hi @rapidcad,

I apologize for the delay in response and really appreciate your patience while they look into the issue. 

They ran a number of tests, but were not able to reproduce the issue, except in your blocks. I was told that the files contained some legacy Genius data (which originated from early versions of Mechanical Desktop) that may be conflicting with the more recent versions of AutoCAD Mechanical, and possibly the Microsoft Visual Studio code they use. 

The recommendation was to rebuild the blocks, however, I do understand that since the blocks seem to be working, aside from the grip display, it may not be prudent to rebuild the blocks. 

Please let me know if you have further questions and I would be happy to assist. 

All the best,

[cheryl.buck]

Hi @rapidcad,

I am checking back to see if my post helped you with your problem.  Please let me know if you have additional questions or if I can assist further on this issue.  

All the best,

[rapidcad]

Hi Cheryl. I appreciate the effort. Don’t take this wrong but I have to respectfully disagree with the diagnosis since I'm the guy who built every block and I know what I was using for the last 7 years.

The block that you have was built with AutoCAD 2011, and yes it was a "save-as" from an earlier block, but nowhere had I used AutoCAD Mechanical Desktop of any year's version to produce blocks. I’ve never had access to Mechanical Desktop and 100% of our US dynamic blocks were drawn from scratch by me, using only polyline tracing I did manually to bring in shapes from machine drawings. I did use one of my Austrian counterpart’s dynamic blocks as a source for a particular type of dynamic block that we have long since abandoned due to the difficulty to use that style, but these blocks have nothing in common with those blocks.

Every block I build, even 8 years later is built on version E 115.0.0 AutoCAD 2011 – English Version 2.1 on my workstation so that my distributor users who are using any version of AutoCAD back to 2010 can still use our dynamic block library and configuration system.

I also have AutoCAD Mechanical 2012 more recently installed on the same computer, but it hasn’t been used to create anything –just checking performance with it and I haven’t fired it up in about a year. If somehow something is affecting my AutoCAD 2011 by having it on the same computer as AutoCAD 2012 Mechanical, I need to know that – but the software should not bleed over, affecting older versions like that.

However, just to lay that idea to rest I spent a great deal of time yesterday to rebuild that block using AutoCAD 2019 on my laptop which has no version of Mechanical (or predecessors) installed on it, (however it does have AutoCAD 2011, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19 on it) – whew – I support a lot of independent users. This block that I built yesterday has content only drawn in AutoCAD 2019. Nothing was imported or brought in from a reference drawing- that took some time. This block behaves a little better, I admit, but also still shows that the annotative dimensions do not automatically adjust when the block is stretched, they must be regened or touched a second time to fire that associative dimension behavior. Also, when switching block angles, you will often find a grip left hanging in the wrong position – something that only happens in AM using the AMPP profile, not on Vanilla.

Please have a look at the attached block ad see if there is anything wrong with the way it is built, but I’m still convinced that the “Auditing Mechanical Data” I see when inserting our dynamic blocks is having a negative impact on our drawings.

Thank you for persisting on this.

[cheryl.buck]

Hi @rapidcad ,

Thank you for your reply and for sending the updated file. You are correct, there should not be any issue with AutoCAD Mechanical being installed on your system with core AutoCAD.

I will contact the product team for additional input on the issue. 

All the best,

[rapidcad]

Hi Cheryl. A question came up yesterday while I continue to search for the setting that is causing this problem. Did you test the block I posted using AutoCAD Mechanical 2019 or only earlier versions like 2016 that some in our company use? Someone at my organization asked me if this problem was fixed by the latest version. Of course, this morning the latest version is probably 2020 since AutoCAD 2020 was released this morning. I am trying to avoid installing 2020 just to test (I'm in the middle of changing computers and I want to hold off installation until I get the new computer set up). I figure that maybe something might have been addressed in the latest release that addresses this issue (if it was discovered previously).

Let me know..

Thanks!