Map Newbie - Help with Object Data

[Anonymous]

All,

I am a Map newbie with respect to using the database functions and attaching data (I've used it for years for coordinate transformation but that was it).  So here's my conundrum:

I have a file with property boundaries in it.  I have managed to set up my Object Class for the property lines and attached a data as attributes to the entities.  Or at least when I go to any properties, all of the attributes are listed.  However, I cannot get these to display in table form, particularly for editing.  For example, I want to populate several fields by clicking on the map in a location (i.e. the click retrieves the coordinates and populates the field).  Additionally, once I've got it to display in table form and populated, I need to export the data to a DBF file so that others in the organization can open and populate certain fields without Map (these are usually "Notes" fields).  Please help!

P.S. I did attempt online training but unfortunately, there isn't much out there.  The course I did through Global E-Training was complete garbage.  Thanks.

[ChicagoLooper]

Object Data can only be 'viewed' using Map3D and Civil3D. Users who use Vanilla AutoCad can view the 'geometry' or the object itself, but they won't be able to view the Object Data that is attached to the object.

Please explain in detail what you have besides property boundaries because simply saying you have a prop boundary does not provide enough info to formulate an effective workflow.

Also, 'coordinates' to describe a property boundary will invariably confuse the reader. Coordinates of what? Coordinates of a property corner? Which corner? Coordinates of the boundary centroid? A more appropriate and and useful attribute would be square footage or meters. Or length of perimeter.

How are you viewing the object data in table form? Viewing the OD by clicking on a single object and scrolling to the bottom of the property palette does not constitute view the OD in table form, it constitutes viewing OD for a single entity. However, one way to view data in Table Form would be to use the Map Explorer Tab of the Task Pane.

I am guessing you are trying to do something with coordinate transformation. If this is the case the  OD is not the way to go, because there are better and more appropriate tools to get info, and even transform, from one coordinate system to another..

[Anonymous]

Chicago:

I've attached the file (it may not have everything you need so please advise) that I am working on.  I am using Map 2020 as I am well aware of basic AutoCAD's limitations.  

Each property has about 30 attributes.  Many are subjective descriptions regarding the quality of timber, estimated farmland, etc.  Others will be calculated values (such as percentage of land at or above a certain slope, etc.) Coordinates will be used to define locations/calculate distances to features.  Two that come to mind immediately are (a) existing access location, and (b) location of substation.  As we are looking to develop these properties for various uses ranging from outdoor recreation to industrial parks with rail, all of these categories help us to sort through.  As you'll see in the attached file, there are over 40 tracts ranging in size from a handful of acres to well over 1,000 contiguous acres.  

I currently cannot get the attributes to view in table form.  The only way I've gotten it to display is through the Properties box.  I need to be able to view and edit in table form and then export this from Map to a DBF file that will be loaded into MS Access.  From there, I will set the DBF file up so that the other users can open and edit certain fields.  I then will change the source of data from the Map file to the external DBF file for the objects so that the GIS file is live with any changes made in the DBF file.  Does that make sense?

[parkr4st]

enter the command DATAEXTRACTION and follow through the steps.  Choose the file type when asked for and give it a name.  

dave

[Anonymous]

I accidentally clicked the wrong button.  This did NOT solve my issue.  I tried the command but it did not pull any of the attribute data that is visible on the properties tab, just the basic AutoCAD info like color, length, etc.

[ChicagoLooper]

I regret to inform you, but you’ve got a major problem of epic proportions. Don't be discouraged. This can be done, you just need to freely share your data.

Your data is not good. Somewhere, you have, or had, two SDFs: All Prop and Prop Schema. You need to upload both of those. You also have, or had, a shapefile named Substations and you need to upload all 4 components of that shapefile: Substations.shp, Substations.shx, Substations.dbf and Substations.prj. From what I can see, all your data appears to a mass of mess.

Your dwg file doesn't appear to have any usable geometry. The Map Task Pane is describing polygons such as property boundaries, but I don't see objects that look like property boundaries, they look like arbitrarily drawn lines, some intersecting roads, some intersecting streams, some bordering streams and none of it is logical.

Some of the OD you have acquired look official and came from the county. Did someone give you a shapefile that originated from the County Assessor’s office? If you have a parcel shapefile, it's GOLDEN, upload it so it can be used to create what you need. Also upload all SDFs associated with your project too. The data needs to be organized into ‘usable’ object data. Right now, its just a big pile of yuk. 

Sorry, but right now, you shouldn’t even think about adding new data, deleting data, exporting to shapefile or how others will be able to interact with your map. That stuff is not going to happen until this drawing is cleaned up and that entails getting your parcel geometry right and organizing your data.

[ChicagoLooper]

Sorry, the DATAEXTRACTION procedure will not extract 'Object Data.'

Properties and Block Attributes, yes, extraction is possible. Object Data, on the other hand, no, not possible.

[Anonymous]

Chicago,

Thank you so much.  This is my first attempt to build a true MAP GIS file from "scratch".  

The boundaries you see in the file are the only boundaries that I have and these were provided by others as a basic AutoCAD file, not a Map file.  I do not know their origin but suspect they originated with Peabody Energy (see below). I have spent the time to get it in the correct datum (it was originally in arbitrary coordinates) but all I originally had were the polylines themselves with no attributes.  Yes, some are ugly shaped tracts that may look like creeks and such but in fact are property boundaries for haulroads.  All should be closed polylines, or at least should be based on the AutoCAD command.  Many of these deeds trace back 150+ years with somewhat arbitrary boundaries.  And while I have reach out to the local authorities, (a) these counties in KY are way behind times in that most of the rural parts of the counties have not been digitized (read: paper files), and (b) the counties generally accept very little responsibility for the records outside of townships.  This goes back many decades when Peabody Coal (now Peabody Energy) owned the vast majority of the land in these counties (something like 80%+).  As such, the local tax assessors and related agencies basically just took Peabody's word and moved on.  And while Peabody essentially left KY 15 years ago, there's still a huge mess of land records out there.  

Right now, the attribute data that is in there is essentially blank other than a few default values.  My intent is to populate it once it's in table form.  

I've attached the All Prop Schema.  The other is/should be the same format, just under a different name.  I can attached it as well but I honestly think it was just something that I gave a temp name to try and get data to connect.  

The Substation files are public data I pulled from an Arc source.  I can upload this if you wish.  That said, my only use for it is to provide a visual representation of the existing substations in the area.  I can pick them from satellite without the file but this just keeps me from having to search as hard.  If you know of a way where I can translate the Substation file directly to the substation location field in the Property Data, I'll be glad to do so.  I'll also add that most other data sources I'm using are mostly Arc-sourced, either directly from the Arc GIS Connector command (to a link online Arc account) or via SHP/SHX-type attachments.  The polylines representing the property boundaries are the only "data" that I currently "own" with respect to this project.  

And I will both apologize and thank you in advance.  While I have been using basic AutoCAD for 20+ years, using Map beyond coordinate transformation and especially the DBASE/GIS functionality, is completely new to me.  I've tried a few online self-learning courses but what I've found so far is mostly junk.  I feel that if I can get to the point where I'm comfortable manipulating and inputting data properly, I can get the rest of it.  Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Chicago,

I will also note that these, primarily are only the properties my company owns.  There are a handful of tracts within tracts (i.e. boundaries within boundaries) wherein the interior tract is adverse to our possession.  These tracts will essentially be populated as "Adverse".  Thanks.

[ChicagoLooper]

Sorry, but there is neither geometry nor data associated with this SDF. Not a line, not a polygon, not even a feature ID number in the data. Unless you can upload all pictures, shapefiles, sdf's, excel sheets, and everything else, I cannot provide further assistance. I believe the relevancy of anything uploaded should be determined after upload, not before. 

[Anonymous]

Chicago,

I understand your POV.  This is everything that I believe you requested, regardless of my opinion.  I was just trying to minimize how much data had to be uploaded.  If there is a file missing, please advise and I will see if I have it.  But these are the only files in the same directory that I know I have created during this process.

[Anonymous]

I will also note that the GIS terminology is new to me.  So for clarification, the closed polylines in the base DWG are to represent the property boundaries.  Clearly, I'm missing a connection here to get these to show up as objects on the Map side.  

[parkr4st]

still not sure what data is wanted in the data base file.  

I stand corrected on the dataextract

 mapexport all the dwg objects to a SDF file and the data table is as attached.

other than that it is a messy set of data for sure

dave

[ChicagoLooper]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

....... I have managed to set up my Object Class for the property lines and attached a data as attributes to the entities.......

So you have managed to set up your object class.

I am not convinced setting up an object class, whatever that may be, is the correct thing to do. I want to return the drawing to the state it was in before you set up that 'class.' How can I do that?

You have also attached a data as attributes to the entities.

There are five other Data Tables in this drawing besides the one you choose. Why you picked that particular one over the others is beyond me. Can you explain 'why' you choose the Table named Property_Info?

1-the six Data Tables are enclosed in the red.box.

The two things you've done so far, set up class and attach data, might be two different things but they may also be capable of accomplishing the same goal and if this is the case, one of them might be expendable. 

You mentioned you don't have data in the tables, that they're blank. This is normal and what happens when you have successfully 'attached' a Table to objects. A Table is merely a placeholder to store an entity's data.

You walk into a firm to apply for a job. You are handed an application. You now question the VP of Human resources why you don't see your name, address, relevant experience and targeted position on the application. the VP responds, 'Don't you fill in that info yourself?'  

The other table names you didn't use all start with TPM. What does that stand for? I am guessing one of the other five tables might be a better choice. You may also attach more than one table or even attach all tables except the one you chose. I can actually see the logic in choosing all them, except for the one you choose.

I am hoping the drawing and the data you have provided can be salvaged into a usable map. In all honesty, it doesn't look promising. Your only salvation is to provide as much info you possibly can. I still don't know what you're trying to achieve. Switch your position and make yourself the reader, not the author. Exactly what are you, the reader, able to get out of this drawing once it's completed?

[АлексЮстасу]

Hi, rbeauchampCKN7X

If "notes" need to be defined outside Map 3D, then you can use MAPEXPORT and MAPIMPORT - they support many well-known formats.

You can view it in AutoCAD in the form of a table in ShowOD from Olivier Eckmann - https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-map-3d-forum/applications-for-object-data/m-p/9498449#M56959
You can view and edit as a table in my ODEDIT_TABLE - see my website.

Hi, ChicagoLooper,

Tables "TPM..." - creates Map 3D itself when creating topologies.

All Surf Props Unvetted.dwg has the "Untitled1" polygonal topology.

[Anonymous]

Chicago,

I have attached a version of the file from before the object class and data was set.  

As for the various TPM tables, I honestly have no idea where those came from or how they got into the file.  The Property_Data is the ONLY table/data attributes that I have created.  I understand that these attributes may be confusing for many.  That said, the values and whatnot that will populate them are important criteria my company uses to evaluate said properties for sale or development.  

I also completely understand that the majority of data is blank.  That's perfectly clear on my end and the nexus to my problem.  While I could get the attributes to display in the Properties box, I could not get them to show as a docked table like other data sources (e.g. the Substations file for example.  When attached, I can get the data to display in a table and edit).  

I fully admit my naivete with regards to MAP and GIS in general.  Please note that I a

[ChicagoLooper]

Thank you for uploading the new drawing. Unfortunately, you still have issues.

You have parcel boundaries intersecting other parcel boundaries. This is not allowed because it doesn't create two mutually exclusive areas. Intersecting boundaries mean the  parcels have partial overlap and confusion arises when trying to determine who owns what in the area of overlap.

You have small parcels completely enclosed by large parcels. This is also not allowed because there are areas of overlap. The small and large parcels must be mutually exclusive. Overlap is simply not allowed when analyzing parcels. 

You will need to redraw your parcels. Without redrawing, I don't see a way where you can perform any type of analysis. If it were me, I'd perform a JOIN. A Join operation is an effective way get me what I need.

WARNING: You cannot perform a join without first cleaning up your parcel line work. Creating, manipulating and editing a table like you have described is not possible in Map 3D. However, with a proper JOIN, you can manipulate your table in Excel or Access. Whoever told you it was possible to create, view and edit data in a table while you're using Map3D is the same person who will sell you swamp land in the Everglades.

[Anonymous]

@ChicagoLooper  Thanks for your assistance.  After my last post this morning, I began a parallel path by digitizing the DWG through Global Mapper.  I want it made known publicly that Autodesk has done everything in its power to make Map as user-unfriendly as possible.  I've spent hundreds of dollars on training from Autodesk partners and still can't get things to work out correctly.  Conversely, the FREE training that GM/Blue Marble offers for GM is phenomenal.  As such, I have been able to create these features in GM after about 20 minutes of walk-through via their self-guided lessons.  

I was really wanting to keep this in CAD as I use Carlson Software (vs. Civil 3D) for terrain design.  With everything loaded in Map, I could switch between menus instead of saving in GM, exporting and then importing back into Carlson/AutoCAD.  That said, much of that work will be done on the back end of this process rather than now when I'm just trying to set this stuff up.  Thanks again and I'll move on.  

[ChicagoLooper]

Should've mentioned Carlson and Global Mapper at the beginning, like in the opening post. Why the secret? 

Please understand that disclosure is the name of the game here in this forum. And yes, I am familiar with Global Mapper.

Warning: your parcel boundaries are not good in your AutoCad drawing. The boundaries overlap and that makes it impossible to analyze your parcels no matter what program you use.

[Anonymous]

@ChicagoLooper  I was sincere and grateful when I thanked you for the help you provided.  This is an AutoCAD forum, hosted by Autodesk.  As such, I felt it appropriate to focus on Map rather than the other programs.  Furthermore, (a) neither program was used to modify any of the files uploaded, and (b) I was truly intending to perform all these function within Map rather than other methods/programs.  It is unfortunate that Autodesk has made this so much more complicated than, for example, Global Mapper.  Thank you and good day.