Map 3D 2016 "New Features"

[Cadguru42]

http://help.autodesk.com/view/CIV3D/2016/ENU/?guid=GUID-74B5CBDF-75BF-4388-85FC-91A3617FDA1B&p=MAP

This makes two years in a row where Autodesk has basically neglected Map 3D. It looks like Autodesk has put Map 3D in maintenance mode and will no longer add new features or enhance new ones. 

[Anonymous]

Hi,

yes, investments seem to go into cloud stuff etc.

Rob

[braudpat]

Hello from France

YES + YES !

Latest small improvments were with release 2013 (always things related to the FDO)

And latest major (for FDO) release was the 2012 with the new FDO display engine ... and the TopoBase Models (with Oracle and SQLite)

I am vey sad : so many things (not related to the FDO) could be corrected and improved !!

My favorite MAP are release 2012 & 2014 faster and more stable compared to others ...

Regards, Patrice (I am not an Autodesk Advisor)

[gluckett]

Yes, it would be nice to see more FDO to AutoCAD integration and round-tripping.

See where the Geospatial Community feels AutoCAD Map 3D sits right now:

http://gisgeography.com/mapping-out-gis-software-landscape/

[Anonymous]

If it's in mainteniance mode they are doing a terrible job maintaning it.  The number of crashes in Map3d2016 is ridiculas.  Just another year of waiting for the  2 or 3 SP's to fix **** enough to use the current release, then 2017 Map 3D will arrive, .....and..... repeat.  Ground Hog day and More Cowbell please! Back to Map3D 2015 and ESRI.   I've seen enough here.

[Alfred.NESWADBA]

Hi,

>> The number of crashes in Map3d2016 is ridiculas.

I fully agree with the missing new features (and or missing some repairs), but I have not had any single crash yet.

What are you doing, what data types are you working with, what functions make you Map 3D installation crashing?

- alfred -

[Anonymous]

Hi Al,

Zooming, Panning, and 3d orbiting in Map 3D while drafting 3d solids.  

I create Utility plans. I draft poles, towers, cell tower equip, cell towers, fiber optic pathways, manholes, and many other structures in 3d using solids for our mapping and proposals.  Works fine in Map 3d 2015 and earlier, but it's crash city in Map3d 2016 so far.  We don't have the luxury of screwing around for weeks or months testing new releases for ADSK.  This stuff should be bullet proof after 10 years of development, especially if it's going into maintenance mode.

Thanks 

[kalman_albert]

"New features" is too much ...

If somebody try to see new features on Autodesk web site the last what's new is Apr17 2013 for Map 2014 ?

http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad-map-3d/getting-started/caas/video/youtube/watch-v-MurO...

About two years ago ... Autodesk staff declare unofficial (after my question in the big room) ... the map is put in the corner ... what means? they won't develop any new features for the future and they still have this product in the portfolio only for "prestige".  Why did buy Topobase if they "retired" the topobase team.

(U)Fortunately for us we have market for develop those miss features that we should have in a decent paid "commercial" product, the problem's that the API is poor and not update with "new features".

After Map 2014 SP2.1 all our  development app stop to working, and Autodesk team say after they noticed that was their fault "please remove the Sp2.1 or switch  to 2015 " that's totally unprofessional and without any respect for me(and others)  who paid this software.

The only new features that I have seen in 2016 is possible to to use MS SQL 2012/2014 spatial, till 2015 not supported .

Little history ...

The nice story was told as I remember about 2006 when Autodesk lunch FDO with 2007 pompous, many beta testers was enthusiastic to see  on live presentation when 150 MB sdf file was load in 3-5 sec wow ...

In the long story of beta code Map was: Mako, Hammerhead , Great White  ...

I not understand then what means this .... after some years realize that Autodesk has believe that in 3 years they will swallow the market .... but ... it seams Autodesk(Map3D) became to hungry for "Great White" and maybe died or now is in "conservation".

Albert

PS

Yesterday I paid subscription ... for what ? (oh... for MS SQL 2012/2014 FDO provider )

My opinion is map and civil will disappear as product and only one product will be suite(s) and these will include all in the "new rental" paradox. Autodesk CC ?

[kalman_albert]

if this is true ... is sad
if this is true ... is bad
if this is true ... is enough

But, who know's the true?

Albert

[gluckett]

AutoCAD Map 3D (and Civil since it has Map built-in) is still the best bridge between Engineering and GIS in any organization.  All non-Autodesk GIS sites require the CAD bridge and they always need either:

• Safe Software's FME
• AutoCAD Map 3D
• Both

So without such as CAD bridge, many GIS integration projects would be much more cumbersome. 

To live without AutoCAD Map 3D we would need:

• the basic AutoCAD to have a form of Object Data (User Defined Fields)
• the basic AutoCAD to support Coordinate Systems
• the basic AutoCAD to support FDO or something like it

ArcGIS for AutoCAD (free) for the basic version of AutoCAD has a really neat feature:  It gives a form of User Defined Field to every block, pline, mpoly etc. in a basic version of AutoCAD.

Both ArcMap and Safe's FME can read this attribute data.

If ESRI can give basic AutoCAD User Defined Fields, it would be pretty easy for the Map 3D developers or the AutoCAD team to do it.

So the sweet spot for AutoCAD Map is the pain-point in CAD to GIS integration. 

We need to look both worlds because AutoCAD Map 3D lives in both.

[braudpat]

Hello from France

+0.5 with gluckett

AutoCAD MAP is very popular in France but its market is decreasing slowly every year mainly because of QGIS and lack of NEW features !

Sorry but Autodesk hasn't add any valuable features to MAP since MAP 2012

*** MAP 2012 ***

New FDO display/labels engine & TopoBase Models integration (Water, Sewer, Elec, etc)

I estimate that about 10 customers are really using TopoBase Models with MAP in France ... So No Comment ...

Of course much more customers in Germany, Austria, Switzerland because in these countries, they are many good old customer of C-Plan (which has been bought by Autodesk)

*** MAP 2013 ***

A few new minor FDO features

*** MAP 2014/2015/2016 ***

Only recompilation of previous MAP with some FDO  bugs corrected and very minor / micro Features ...

*** For the FUN ***

2/3 years ago, I was asked by the AutoCAD MAP team manager about NEW features and/or Corrections/Improvments, I Need ! ... I was very enthusiast ! ... So since a few years, I am sad with MAP ...

Here is my OLD wish list ... With some/many of these features AutoCAD MAP could be a real NICE product !!!

****************************************************************************************
****** Improvements (or Bug Correction) on existing Features ****** Patrice Wish List ***

****************************************************************************************

01) --- MPOLYGON --- Bugs / Limitations ---

01A - Add a feature Hatch Lineweight
01B - The Display of the Middle Grips is not correct (compare to PLine)
01C - Be able to autogenerate Links (UDL) to Tables with MPOLYGONs (It works only with closed PLine)


02) --- MAPIMPORT (Polygone/Surface Geometry)  ---

We have an option to import all entities as MPOLYGON or as PLINE - Please keep it !
Very often we have a few MPolygon in the layer but ALL are MPolygon after MAPIMPORT ...
(or every geometries are closed PLines after MAPIMPORT)
Please offer a NEW option : Create MPOLYGON only if necessary
So most often we get a few MPolygons and many closed PLines ...

NOTE: I have a Lisp routine for this Wish !

03) --- MAPEXPORT --- MAPINFO Format ---

Please could you set the correct MapInfo settings relative to system coordinates
when doing a MAPEXPORT with the TAB and the MIF-MID format ...


04) --- ATLAS --- BUG with Scale + Polygonal VPort ---

Please correct the beautiful BUG on the scale which is FALSE asap with we have a % overlay/overlap  
Please add the possibilty to have a polygonal vport (not ony rectangular) for the main vport


****** NEW Features for MAP ******

01) --- Object Data General and EDIT ---

01A - Be able to rename an OD field/column
01B - Be able to reorganize the order of fields/columns (up/down)
01C - Please a function like Search and Replace ODs
01D - Add Prefix or Suffix on alphanumeric ODs
01E - Add or Multiply by a value for numeric ODs

02) --- Object Data - Select, Query, Update, etc --- in the CURRENT drawing ---

Be able to see OD as a Grid (idem the Attributes Tables with FDO)
Select, Query, Update, Export as CSV, etc
With options : auto-select, auto-zoom, etc

Be able to use a QSELECT on OD or something equivalent ...
 

NOTE: I have a Lisp routine for search and select from an OD value !

03) --- MAPCLEAN ---

We have "Cut at intersection" of lines, plines, etc
Please I would like a NEW option : "Cut at Block"
So for each Block selected which is ON a line, pline, etc : the line, pline, etc will be CUT at the Insert Point of the Block
Please keep XDATAs and ODs on each part of the line, pline, etc ...


04) --- Drawings Group ---

Be able to use Query with Properties Updates and Reports INTO the Current Drawing
Very important : it's too slow to use a New DWG and then we have to associate THE drawing and then execute many Queries ...
Then Save the DWG, Quit, Reload, etc
 

05) --- FDO Gis Overlay ---

05A) We have Lines intersected (or other operations) by Polygons
But I need : Polygons intersected (or other operations) by Lines


06) --- In the past, MAP 2005/2006 have some features of CIVIL : points, surfaces, etc ---

In MAP, I need to be able to manage points (External CSV Points or ACAD points or ACAD blocks)
to generate a 3D Surface (3D TIN - maybe explode it to get many 3DFaces), generate 2D Plines at Z/Elevation, and colorize 3DFaces depending on the Z/Altitude or the Slope, etc
--- It's THE MINIMUM for a GIS Software ---
I don't speak about Profiles and all other high levels features of CIVIL ...  


07) --- TIF+TFW, ECW, JPG+JGW on a 3D Surface (3D TIN) ---

Be able to use this kind of images on 3D Surface with 3DOrbit, etc
AND please a GOOD quality when printing the 3D Drawing + Images
In the past your ENVISION product was doing this job nicely !


08) --- Google Earth Plugin ---

It's a MUST for me because we are speaking of a GIS Software
For example you could implement only MAPIMPORTKML/KMZ and MAPEXPORTKML/KMZ
with the possibility to IMPORT/EXPORT attributes NOT ONLY Geometries !


09) --- FDO Printing with Raster ---

Please could you IMPROVE the quality of the FDO printing especially when we have Raster Images !!


10) --- FDO Clipping with Raster ---

Please could you implement the clipping of FDO Raster (idem that we have with standard Raster File)
 

11) --- Export FDO Map to DWG ---

Please add a NEW option to export FDO attributes as Object Data of MAP (or CIVIL)
The option to export the FeatureId of the FDO Layer as XDATA is usable only by programmers ...


12) --- FDO Geometry + FDO Raster + DWG Layer + DWG Raster + etc : BUG !? or Improvement !? ---

For me, there is a major bug when we mix FDO, FDO Raster, DWG, Raster DWG, PDF, DWF, etc
The bug is related to the display/printing priority which is NOT STABLE !
Could you propose something easy to use and manage ?


13) --- FDO : Add more options to control the display (or NOT) of FDO Labels ---

13A) Always Display (Yes/No) - Very important: it's my problem if I have many many labels/texts ...
13B) Display (Yes/No) if no overlay/overlap with an other label/text
13C) Display (Yes/No) if no overlay/overlap with a geometry (line, polygon). I speak about the vector graphic not the hatch
13D) Display (Yes/No) if no overlay/overlap with a hatch (coming from a polygon).

Something relative to 13B/13C/13D wish : be able to give a Radius to find somewhere a "free" seat for the text/label if possible !


14) --- Linking Polylines to DataBase ---

An easy way, to link automatically (UDL, etc) many PLines with ODs (with a FeatureId field/column) to a existing Table (with the "same" FeatureId field/column)


15) --- FDO Driver for DWF with attributes --- Read Only Mode ---

Because with a high precision DWF (+ attributes), we could use it as a FDO Layer  ( no action on stylisation but I need the Labels ! )
So NO USE of a DWG !


16) --- FDO Attributes : EDIT ---

16A - Please a function like Search and Replace Attributes
16B - Add Prefix or Suffix on alphanumeric Attributes
16C - Add or Multiply by a value for numeric Attributes


17) --- FDO General --- Read-Only Option (Yes/No) = Security ---

For Geometry FDO Driver : SDF3, SHP, Oracle, PostGIS, SQL Server Spatial, SQLite, ODBC, etc
Please add an option into the connect FDO dialog box (when we see all available layers)
Read-Only (Yes/No) - Default = No


18) --- MAP ODs with AutoCAD Fields ---

The "Insert Field / Object"  Feature of AutoCAD (coming with AutoCAD 2005/2006) can't see the ODs of MAP
I will appreciate tu use ACAD Fileds with my ODs ...


19) --- Break / Trim / etc ---

These ACAD commands erase the ODs !
For example, if I break a Pline with ODs, only the first part of the PLine will keep the original ODs !

NOTE: I have a Lisp routine for breaking Line, Pline, etc and keeping OD value !

SNIFF, SNIFF, I had a Dream !!!

Regards, Patrice (I am not an Autodesk Advisor)

[kalman_albert]

I'm happy to see such a replay ... it's very, very good

We need such a post in public because it's seems Autodesk not listen the powerful user. And when we say something what they do not like they upset !!

In the past when I told with some AutoDesk team guys I tried to explain to them "man I'm working with this product how you can't realize, please listen to me, I do not invent needed improvement, I can show you how should this product is use in the real life! ... to no end ....

I'm wondered also to QGIS I have tried is seems is a very powerful tool ... but again for customer is need to switch from one software to other, not very easy, I think we must have almost every QGIS function in MAP.

As I said, I realize AutoDesk are thinking they lost this battle (GIS market), maybe yes, maybe no, and they are thinking they did not earn enough money? But this market is huge and there are a lot requirements for GIS data production and maintaining.

They focus now all efforts in other direction without to have a suitable good product to sell.

Today we still use MapGuide 6.5 because is fantastic (The old not means bad !!!) product combing with some trick with FDO Map and MapGuide OpenSurce we do some powerful solution.

I'm wonder where we could be if the Map would as we expect ?

I belive with little improvements this product could be a very powerful tools and only then we can "Bridge GIS and CAD" in full Autodesk Customer. If the customer has other GIS solutions then the "small bridge" maybe is enough.

I know in Romanian very small customer (1 or 2 maybe) using Topobase Model solutions, personally I use only custom development solution, I'm not very happy what AutoDesk offers.

The both model custom vs Topobase as advantage and disadvantage.

For most off your list is need to create routines to solve but most off them need very good API and unfortunately some of them are missing.

I'd like to add to your "New features" list (we develop all from them) but normally should be in a normal (subscription product) product. If we develop I'm wonder why can't develop AutoDesk? But the question: Is Map team AutoDesk who can do this ?

Plus requirements:

*** Overlay : We need option FDO overlay Line to Line intersection that in most case are point (pipe line intersect with river line) we solve with custom command

*** Join external data base like a Link template. In the most case the DateTabel is not refresh in "join table if the external data is changed "

 *** Refresh all Layers in Display Manager: we solve as custom commands. The most commonly situation is when is use with multiple features calls from database query (views).

*** Break FDO line without open Data Table : we solve as custom commands

*** Label : such a stupid option in MAP for Text Annotation Features you can select only point to "Create new feature from geometry" but I want to create from existing text ! It's stupid !!!. In normal mode for Annotation Features (text) should have option to select also TEXT!!!! I told to AutoDesk more 4 years ago ... never mind we solve as custom command .

*** Convert Text to Text Annotation Features is also stupid , for every convert process map create another feature class but I want to convert later others label in the same exiting feature class, this is unsuable. We solve as custom command .

***** Feature Label as Static Label (like Feature-linked annotation ESRI) (no autocad text entities) with dynamic value change.(Is not easy to do !!!! , but others do it)

*** The map has different render algorithm for label for zoom and pan therefor display is sometimes chaotic. In pan mod map try label to "follow dynamic path" but in zoom mode the label disappear and then reappear much faster.

**** Labels, Label, Labels need labels and styling improvement some missing normal options should be here

**** Save styling as template

**** Symbol library

**** Symbol from images

**** Document layer XML structure: we need to digging on web to looking how to ...

*** Add Map Feature after data connection with option to be default invisible

*** Spatial tools :

-- break a line along line features at given distance , we solve as custom commands

-- break a line between two point automatically check-in without show DataTabel, we solve as custom commands

-- create line along line features till given point (perpendicular from point to line ) we solve as custom commands

-- missing a lot of analitical spatial tools what other GIS solution have

I hoped (in the last 10 years ) that Autodesk Map team invited different guys to show to them how this software is used in practical life because in the most situation we need to model the real life tasks. Why ? Because we (and also many others ) are in the ideal situation : reseller, developer, consultant and finally ... user !

Albert

[braudpat]

Hello

+1 +2 with Albert !

Thanks, I appreciate very much your message ...

<<< Please Autodesk, listen to me ! >>> ... and NOW listen to US !!

<<< FUN On >>>

Albert, you are speaking into your message about the MAP codenames !

Please look at this topic (I am very verbose on this Site) on a French GIS forum :

http://georezo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=77588

If you can complete MY codename list, I will appreciate !!

<<< FUN Off >>>

I am using MAP since ADE on ACAD R12 then MAP R1 on ACAD R13 (the WORST ACAD/MAP never released) then ALL versions of MAP ...

and I am too an old user of Mapguide v5.0/6.0/6.5 ...

The Old MapGuide v6.5 is/was the fastest HTTP GIS software Server because with its ActiveX plugin, it was vector based on the client side , so the Server is almost never stressed my multiple queries from clients ...

MGES/MGOS/AIMS is slow because as all other competitors, it is Raster based !

OR you have to pre-calculate many Gb (50-200 Gb for some french customers) of raster Tiles for each zoom level, the customer needs ...

---> I agree with ALL your requirements !

PLEASE PLEASE Autodesk in the French countries (and maybe elsewhere !?) we would like to go ON WITH AutoCAD MAP !!!

Happy WE, Regards, Patrice (I am not an Autodesk Advisor)

[braudpat]

Hello Albert

I have noticed into your list :

>>>  *** Refresh all Layers in Display Manager: we solve as custom commands. The most commonly situation is when is use with multiple features calls from database query (views) <<<

The  MAPUPDATEMAP  FDO MAP command is not OK for you !?

If NO, please could explain why ?

Regards, Patrice (I am not an Autodesk Advisor)

[kalman_albert]

Maybe ... I'll will check if is available for 2010, the most time we was force to use old version (bad issue label ), honestly I did not know this command ...
It's another improvement it should be a "Refresh all" button in display manager 🙂

Albert

[braudpat]

Hello from France

1) MAPUPDATEMAP is available with MAP 2010 !

I have yet PCs (Win XP Pro / Win Seven) with an OLD MAP 2010/2011/201x 32 bits ...

ALL my PCs (32 or 64 bits) have a minimum of FOUR/FIVE versions of MAP and many ACAD / LT / CIVIL / etc ...

2) My favorite AutoCAD MAP versions are : 2014 (+SP2) or 2012 (+SP2) and before of course 2010 (+SP2) !

For me : MAP 2011 (+SP1+SP2) or MAP 2013 (+SP2.1) are slower and less reliable !

3) And for you ?

Why do you use this or this version of MAP  ?

Depending of which "terrific" bug ??

4) You live in which country ?

Regards, Patrice (I am not an Autodesk Advisor)

[kalman_albert]

Hello from Romania,

1. I have found it in 2012, if you say  for 2010, I believe you. The 2010 is on my still working 10 years Dell Laptop (I can't acces today),  but the command (in 2012) is undocumented, no help .

Also in map 2014 I find MAPUPDATEMAPPREVIEWS (the command is suggested on command prompt but not works 

2. Map 2010 with SP2 is a version on we work hard and also our customer use it for very long time, now I can't convince them to switch new version (they have 2016) because for them the stable version is most important. The one reason for customer is direct GoogleEarth export .

We promise them that we will develop to them for new version a GE "clever" export commands for FDO features class with full data.

Then we jump to 2012 (no any 2011) also very stable version and now use 2014 SP1 because with SP2 all our development App not working because API Bug Autodesk (again), Autodesk recognize it my case is open for this and is in "Pending" from more one years. Only now I realize that in one years before me nobody find ... I'm wonder why ?

Autodesk suggestion was "please remove SP2 or go to 2015".

I'm working with 2013 SP 2.1, I did not total disagree it, one for customer has this version and is need to maintenance the application, but I avoid to use it.

It is important 2013 SP2.1 and one hotfix for Coordinate system because for our territory the transform coordinate is very good with this version (much better then 2010 or 2012).

Generally in all this long time I avoided to use Odd version of any Autodesk product because my opinion is "all this versions are unfinished" (2005/2007/2009/20011/2013) and in long history this is proved. It's seems 2015 maybe is good,  I did not use to lot, I will jump to 2016. Only good 2015 and I now agree ... is the full dark interface.

(Un)Fortunately Autodesk not change FDO API 2013/2014/2015 too much I think with some recompiling our app will work in 2016, but in the past was a punishment to do the same app in 2010, 2012 and 2014 differently (3 version).

The favorite version is 2014 maybe will be (new) as (R14) 🙂

The bug what I describe for 2013/2014/2015 and also in 2016 affect only in some condition but is a big mistake in dll provider (we digging very,very deep to find it), therefore now we tried to avoid it, but there are some situation for project that was develop 6 years ago where we can't modify number of parameters of function because somebody make a mistake. Is not very clear for me now who develop this MS SQL provider.

Yesterday Autodesk confirm the bug is present, finally I'm happy, finally they recognize(reproduce) the bug.

In the others words my favorite combination is Map3D with MS SQL Server (do not have such a large spatial function then Oracle or PostgreSQL) but is so easy to do everything (all is mathematics) therefore we are happy with this combination (but also in MS SQL we find some issue (imprecision)  (in spatial components) when we start to do "pharmacy calculation" .

"The perfect software is a software that is suitable for what you want to do!"

... and finally ...

I can't exist without MapGuide 6.5

Albert

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I would like to suggest to discuss in this thread only the more general topic whether users are happy the way Map is developed /maintened and not to start discussing single technical features and issues - open a new discussion for that. If we want to provide feedback then we should remain focused!

Rob

[braudpat]

Hello Rob

I know that TopoBase has many customers in Switzerland because of C-Plan and you are a TopoBase specialist !

Sometimes I am looking at your site/blog and THANKS I appreciate it and all the the Infos  you dispatch ...

Yes sorry now I am exchanging with Albert through our personal EMails ...

Please remind that we are mainly speaking about the "NON evolution of MAP" and which release (with or without) Service Packs is the more reliable / fast for customers in our countries ....

I always hope that Autodesk will correct some "major" bugs and improve MAP for the next release ...

Regards, Patrice (I am not an Autodesk Advisor)

[Anonymous]

We that just about does it for this thread then.  🙂  LOL