Azimuth & DIP

Anonymous · ‎11-14-2007

Hello ! I am new user of Map 3D 2008.
I have to draw a lots of drill hole, and for their location, i have one starting point (easting, northing, elevation). The total depth of the hole is separate by a lot of level. The location of every depth level (around 3 meters) is only given with Azimuth and DIP.
For now, i go on the left view, draw a straight line, rotate the line to have the good angle DIP, then change to top view, and rotate the line to have the Azimuth.
Is there a macro program somewhere on this earth who can calculate the Azimuth & DIP ?
I would prefer to have every point in easting, northing, elevation, but it's not the case.

Pat Wood
Osisko Mine Project

Anonymous · ‎11-15-2007

If you could reword your description or post an example it might help those
of us who work in other fields. I know what an Azimuth is but am not sure of
DIP. Is it an acronym or are you referring to a Vertical of Zenith angle?

Allen

wrote in message news:5777969@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello ! I am new user of Map 3D 2008.
I have to draw a lots of drill hole, and for their location, i have one
starting point (easting, northing, elevation). The total depth of the hole
is separate by a lot of level. The location of every depth level (around 3
meters) is only given with Azimuth and DIP.
For now, i go on the left view, draw a straight line, rotate the line to
have the good angle DIP, then change to top view, and rotate the line to
have the Azimuth.
Is there a macro program somewhere on this earth who can calculate the
Azimuth & DIP ?
I would prefer to have every point in easting, northing, elevation, but
it's not the case.

Pat Wood
Osisko Mine Project

Anonymous · ‎11-15-2007

The DIP is the Vertical of Zenith angle.
Here a example of the info that i receive from the Flexit (a sensor for scanning the position of the drill's hole)

Starting point:
Easting: 714035.00
Northing: 5334811.84
Elevation: 319.81
Depth: 215.58 m

2nd point:
Depth: 15m
Azimuth: 202.15
DIP: 88.28

3rd point:
Depth: 18m (3 meters from the 2nd point)
Azimuth: 202.62
DIP: 88.30

Most of the next points have a depth of 3 meters, until i have 215m. I can draw the line from a point to a other easily, by switching from a side view to the top view. I try to find a way to convert the Azimuth and DIP data in coordinate data, and paste it in AutoCAD Map by using MULTIPLE / POINT.
I am looking to create a excel files with trigonometry formula in it.

By the way, excuse me if sometime it's not written very well ... because ... Parlez-vous francais ?
Regard's

Pat Wood

Anonymous · ‎11-15-2007

I think you're on the right track with the excel file. In this case it's
easier to reduce the data outside of AutoCAD first.

The only thing I don't understand yet is that it looks like you're missing a
piece of data. I would expect a slope distance to go with the Zenith angle.
If we take the 2nd point I would expect to see something like this:

Azimuth: 202.15
Slope Dist: 40.325 m
Zenith Angle: 88.28
Depth: 15 m

You would apply the Sine of the Zenith angle to the Slope Distance to obtain
a horizontal distance.

That would let me calculate the Northing and Easting in 2D by calculating
the Delta Northing and Delta Easting of a 40.305 m (from my example) long
line at an Azimuth of 202.15. The length becomes the hypotenuse of the
triangle, the Azimuth is measured from north or south and the Delta N and
Delta E are the legs of the triangle.

Since your data does not have distances but you know how far away the 3rd
hole is from the second. I believe I am still missing something. But
hopefully you can get somewhere with this information.

It's the end of the work day on the east cost of the USA. So I'll check for
anything more from you in the morning.

No worries about the writing I only thought that I wasn't understanding
because of a difference in region or discipline. Your English is fine. Just
some of the technical terms don't translate well to what I know. Much better
than my dozen word of French anyway.

Try looking in Help for 'AD. Or maybe the French equivalent of
Azimuth/Distance. I just checked out the command and it allows the entry of
Elevation, Slope or Grade. It's a transparent command that can be used while
drawing a Line.

Luck
Allen

wrote in message news:5779008@discussion.autodesk.com...
The DIP is the Vertical of Zenith angle.
Here a example of the info that i receive from the Flexit (a sensor for
scanning the position of the drill's hole)

Starting point:
Easting: 714035.00
Northing: 5334811.84
Elevation: 319.81
Depth: 215.58 m

2nd point:
Depth: 15m
Azimuth: 202.15
DIP: 88.28

3rd point:
Depth: 18m (3 meters from the 2nd point)
Azimuth: 202.62
DIP: 88.30

Most of the next points have a depth of 3 meters, until i have 215m. I can
draw the line from a point to a other easily, by switching from a side view
to the top view. I try to find a way to convert the Azimuth and DIP data in
coordinate data, and paste it in AutoCAD Map by using MULTIPLE / POINT.
I am looking to create a excel files with trigonometry formula in it.

By the way, excuse me if sometime it's not written very well ... because ...
Parlez-vous francais ?
Regard's

Pat Wood

Anonymous · ‎11-16-2007

No, i have not missing a piece of data.
I don't have the Slope distance to helping me.
I attach a file, where you can see a example.

1- First, i draw a point at 714035.00,5334811.84,319.81
2- I go on left view, draw a straight line on 15m (depth data)
3- I rotate that line of 1.72° CCW for be at 88.28°(DIP data)
4- Then a switch to the Top view. We can see a small line in south direction (Azimuth 180°)
5- I rotate it by 22.15° CW to have 202.15° (Azimuth data)

Then the end point of this line is my 2nd position, so i start again from step 1 to 5, but the data for the 3rd point
Depth: 3m Azimuth: 202.62 DIP: 88.30
It's working well, but i have hundreds of hundreds of it to do... Message was edited by: Pat Wood

Anonymous · ‎11-16-2007

The file

Anonymous · ‎11-16-2007

OK. A picture is worth a thousand words ±. Now I know that the DIP is what I
would call a Vertical angle. That is one taken perpendicular to plumb. In
other words straight down would be 90°. Your 15m Depth is your total
distance displacement. I was viewing it only as a measured depth of the
hole.

If you think you're ever going to have to do this again I'd say take the
time to develop the spread sheet. I have an add on to Excel which makes
handling angles easier. I can't find the web site again so if you'd like to
try it, email me and I'll send you a copy.

If I have time later I'll explore the 'AD command.

Allen

wrote in message news:5779521@discussion.autodesk.com...
The file

Anonymous · ‎11-16-2007

Yes Allen, i'll would like to have add on to excel.
It should help me. I am not pretty good with formula in excel.

There 2 triangles to calculate the coordinate point.
(see previous .jpg file)
One from the left view with the vertical angle (DIP), and after, one triangle from the Top view with the Azimuth.

I'll try to input a formula for : Sinus of the DIP data(DIP is 88.28° but have to subtract it from 90° straight down = 1.72°)multiply by the depth data (15m ...who is the Hypothenuse)for having the distance the first Delta Northing.
Then the Cosinus of DIP (1.72°) multi. by depth data (15)= the elevation data
Then i do the same thing for the Triangle on top view

Pat

Anonymous · ‎11-16-2007

OK. I can't push that out through OE. My email is in the clear. Look for it
in the post or in the properties of the message. Otherwise; jessupa at NOUSE
co dot rockland dot ny dot us. Either email me direct or post your email and
I'll email you the zip file.

Allen

Anonymous · ‎11-19-2007

Hi Allen. I finally created a excel sheet, and it's work pretty well ! I insert some trigo's formula, and it convert it all in delta Easting - Norting and Elevation.

Thank's a lot for your help.

Pat Wood
Qc, Canada

Anonymous · ‎11-19-2007

You're Welcome. You had an easier time because you didn't have to deal with
Deg, Min. & Sec. Just out of curiosity. were the angles in Decimal Degrees
of Grads?

Allen

wrote in message news:5780959@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Allen. I finally created a excel sheet, and it's work pretty well ! I
insert some trigo's formula, and it convert it all in delta Easting -
Norting and Elevation.

Thank's a lot for your help.

Pat Wood
Qc, Canada

Anonymous · ‎11-19-2007

The angles are in Degrees. But in excel, it transform it in radian.
ex: =F5+SIN(RADIANS(C6))*J6

C6 data are in degrees

Anonymous · ‎11-19-2007

You seem to have it well in hand. Have a Happy.

Allen

wrote in message news:5781244@discussion.autodesk.com...
The angles are in Degrees. But in excel, it transform it in radian.
ex: =F5+SIN(RADIANS(C6))*J6

C6 data are in degrees

Anonymous · ‎11-28-2007

Stumbled on this while looking for help myself. Here's what I've learned so far...

We get orientation information for drill holes as:

L Az Dip
0.0 45.0 -60.0
3.0 45.1 -59.8
6.0 45.2 -59.7
...

where L is distance down the hole, Az is the bearing and Dip is the angle from horizontal (up can be + or -, depending on the convention).

If there is a "usual" way to calculate drill hole paths, it is by "minimum curvature". Here are the formulae:

φ = arcCos[Cos(Dp2 - Dp1) - Sin(Dp2) * Sin(Dp1) * (1 - Cos(Az2 - Az1))]
F = (2 / φ) * Tan(φ / 2)

ΔX = F * (L / 2) * [Sin(Dp2) * Sin(Az2) + Sin(Dp1) * Sin(Az1)]
ΔY = F * (L / 2) * [Sin(Dp2) * Cos(Az2) + Sin(Dp1) * Cos(Az1)]
ΔZ = F * (L / 2) * [Cos(Dp2) + Cos(Dp1)]

φ is the "dogleg" angle,
Az1 and Az2 are the azimuths at L1 and L2,
Dp1 and Dp2 are the dips at L1 and L2,
F is the "ratio factor", and
L = L2 - L1

I'm just testing this against some contractor data to see if it works, and how up + vs. up - changes the signs for ΔZ.

EDIT: These work with dips converted to straight down = 0, straight up = 180 degrees. Message was edited by: JGrant

Azimuth & DIP

Azimuth & DIP

Azimuth & DIP

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