Need help with block (symbol) issues

[grentsch]

I know this is long, but I've spent days trying to figure this out and need some help.

I’m having an issue with the graphics of a few blocks (symbols) in our AutoCAD files not reading correctly (or not appearing) when pasted in from another AutoCAD file.

Context.  We are working in AutoCAD LT 2023. All the files involved have been converted from DataCAD files to AutoCAD files using the export to AutoCAD process inside of DataCAD.

To resolve the issue we have tried this:

1. Open the “1401-509-to-547.dwg” file - which in the original conversion had issues with six blocks – (existing light fixtures – 2X2, 2X40, EXIT-WL) (existing diffuser – HVAC-E) (existing return grill – RETN-E) (existing linear diffusers – 4-LINEAR-10).

1. While in this file, we opened the layers that these blocks appear on and deleted all information on these layers by selecting all by area and hitting the keyboard delete key.
2. We then used PURGE to eliminate all unused blocks in the file.

1. We then opened “1401-509-to-547-Dfsr.dwg” - which has just one layer named DFSR-E (beside the “0” layer). In this drawing all the symbols appear correctly.

1. We select all information on the layer.
2. We Clipboard copy with base point and select the base point.

1. We go back to the “1401-509-to-547.dwg” file, make sure the current layer is DFSR-E, and Clipboard paste to original coordinates.

1. The resulting information that pastes in is missing the linear diffuser block (symbol). Compare attached “1401-509-to-547-DFSR-E layer.pdf” to “1401-509-to-547-DFSR-Drawing-File.pdf”.
2. Also we see that the symbols “RETN-E” and “HVAC-E” which appear correctly with solid lines in the single layer file “1401-509-to-547-Dfsr.dwg”, appear incorrectly with a broken line type in the “1401-509-to-547.dwg” that the symbols were pasted into, and oddly, both files print these two symbols with the incorrect broken type lines as show in the above referenced .dpfs.

1. A similar thing happens with our attempt to bring in the light fixture symbols.

We open “1401-509-to-547-Lights.dwg” - which has just one layer named LIGHT-E (beside the “0” layer). In this drawing all the light fixture symbols appear correctly.

1. We select all information on the layer.
2. We Clipboard copy with base point and select the base point.
3. We go back to the “1401-509-to-547.dwg” file, make sure the current layer is LIGHT-E, and Clipboard paste to original coordinates.
4. The resulting information that pastes in is missing all the light fixture symbols. The only stuff that seems to have pasted in is line work. Compare attached “1401-509-to-547-LIGHT-E layer.pdf” to “1401-509-to-547-Lights-Drawing-File.pdf”.

[grentsch]

Adding the PDF files mentioned in my post.

[grentsch]

and one last pdf

[pendean]

Thaw/turn on all of your layers first. I got distracted by required ones not being so in your files.

You may have forgotten the AutoCAD Golden Rule #1: layers and blocks already defined in a destination file are never replaced by layers/blocks from an outside source automatically without the user making exceptional effort first to RENAME or replace using external files and INSERT or ADCENTER's replace feature.

You may have also forgotten the second rule of AutoCAD: content not in your destination file come along with your content from the source file whether you want it or not.

Please confirm at your end, let us know what you discover. HINT: BEDIT command is a good way to compare blocks in each file.

FYI your file report errors when I use RECOVER command to open that source file. Also curious as you stated you used PURGE, yet I see all of these in there
Items Purged | Purge Status
------------------------------------------
Registry Applications..... | Purged : 11
Annotation Scales......... | Purged : 15
Layers.................... | Purged : 61
Dimensions................ | Purged : 2
Text Styles............... | Purged : 153

[grentsch]

First - thanks for taking the time to read my post and look at our files. I've been spending time today trying to understand what you wrote and trying the commands and ideas you mention.

I'm very new to AutoCAD (been using about 6 months but just a sporadically until recently) after having used DataCAD for more than 30 years. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the different ways AutoCAD handles things.

Your thaw/turn on all layers suggestion revealed that the light fixture symbols I thought were missing from the tenant space file I attached yesterday named "1401-509-to-547.dwg" seem to be there (on layer LIGHT-E when I select and check properties) when I turn on and thaw all layers. BUT, when I then turn off all layers and turn on just the LIGHT-E layer, the light fixture blocks (symbols) do not show.

Any idea what could be happening with that?

It seems like it could be a key to the issue I'm having.

[grentsch]

Something I just discovered that may help.

I turned off all the layers in the drawing, then started to turn them on one by one.

I found that the light fixture block graphics appear when I turn on the TXT-C-N layer - even though when I select and check the properties of the various light fixture blocks it says they are on the LIGHT-E layer?

When I then set the LIGHT-E layer to current and turn it off, then select all the light fixture graphics that appear on TXT_C_N and LAYCUR them - expecting they will disappear and move to the LIGHT-E layer - nothing happens.

Very confusing to me. 

[pendean]

@grentsch layers control everything in AutoCAD: if part of your block is on a layer that is off or frozen, that part disappears from view (it is still there, but you cannot see it since you told AutoCAD to hide it with those actions). Another basic rule to always remember when using AutoCAD.

Does that help? Seems to be your primary issue if I am reading your posts correctly.

[grentsch]

Thank you for staying with me on this!  Yes that does help - sort of.  If I'm understanding you correctly, some or all of the graphics in the block are on the TXT-C-N layer. I have no idea how that would have happened. The blocks for these things were originally "symbols" in DataCAD and were converted to blocks by DataCAD's export to AutoCAD function. As far as I know, DataCAD's symbols do not have a similar multiple layers within a symbol ability. 

Anyway - seems like now I'm left with need to convert all the information in the blocks I have onto just one layer. Is there a way to do that within an existing block?  Is there a way to look at a block and see what layers it has information on?

Or am I going to need to create new blocks (with all linework on the layer I want - or layer "0"?) to replace the "bad" ones, then figure out how to swap out the new block for the "bad" ones in every drawing file (more than 100 of them) - hopefully without having to insert them individually into each file (thousands or instances)?

[pendean · Accepted solution]

@grentsch yes, for most of us, all the content in the majority of our blocks are set to use layer 0.

In a test file with only your broken blocks in it and nothing else, you can use LAYMRG command to merge all of those unwanted layers into layer 0, then fix the blocks with SETBYLAYER command if you want them to remove any overrides the objects may have (make sure you opt into the 'include block' suboption).

[grentsch]

Thanks again. I've accepted the solution with your last post. It gave me the clues I needed to make progress. I've been spending time today getting all blocks in the block libraries I've created modified to have all information on layer 0 using LAYMRG and then using BE to set the colors of all linework inside the blocks to what we want and set to "BY BLOCK", then redefining the blocks in each drawing file using the "fixed" blocks in these block libraries. This seems to be resolving my issues.