Defpoints Layer

[daveshepherd]

Hi All

Just a quick Question, I Drew a few Lines on the Defpoints Layer and now they will not Move, Erase or Pick/Grips

Is this just a glitch or do I need a different command.

Any Help will be Appreciated

David Shepherd

[Patchy · Accepted solution]

Thaw and On layer 0

[imadHabash]

Hi,

You have to check layer " 0 " status .. turn it ON and/or thaw it . 

[j.palmeL29YX · Accepted solution]

And allow me an additional note: Don't never draw on the Defpoints Layer - it is for internal purposes only. (Consider this an urgent recommendation). 

[sinha_nsit]

Yes, it is understood that the Defpoint layer is not to be used by the users for any purpose.

But then, why at all is it displayed in the list of defined layers? What purpose does it serve?

[imadHabash]

Hi,

@sinha_nsit 

The Defpoints layer is a special, non-printing layer in AutoCAD that is created automatically when you add dimensions to a drawing. It stores the "definition points" that are the reference points for dimensions. While objects on this layer are visible for editing, they will not appear in any printed output because this layer is automatically set not to plot.

[sinha_nsit]

I have understood that.

My question is, why Defpoint is at all displayed in the list of layers.

If it for internal purpose, let it remain hidden.

[cadffm]

Hi,

>" that the Defpoint layer is not to be used by the users for any purpose"

This is not a rule of the program, it is the (very) good advice from professionals!
Of course you could use the layer, but the layer does not behave identically to others and the normal user does not know these subtleties.
Even professionals don't always think about it when AutoCAD behaves in a completely unusual way, but the reason lies somewhere else entirely, such as a frozen system layer

If you set yourself a rule not to use the layer, then you won't even think of locking or freezing it.

That's why I say: Just don't use it, then you'll be less likely to freeze it (because why should you freeze it if you don't have anything on it)

(Yes, I use them, sometimes - but I know the effects and I also think about them when problems arise)

[Moshe-A]

@sinha_nsit ,

i am guessing it is due to compatibility reasons. AutoCAD had obligate to the world to keep compatibility to it's first version.  until R14 there was not plot on/off and we

use Defpoint as drawing aid \ not plot layer. beside that, the definition points must be seen by user cause you can still pick them to stretch to dimension.

Moshe

[daveshepherd]

Great Thanks for your help

[daveshepherd]

great thanks for your help

[sinha_nsit]

"the definition points must be seen by user cause you can still pick them to stretch to dimension".

The Defpoints layer is not needed to be seen for this. If we click a dimension, the grips are shown which can be stretched if desired.

Let me ask the question differently: What limitation would be faced by users if the Defpoint layer is made hidden for them?

[cadffm]

Hi,

open an existing drawing (with objects on defpoints) and you can't edit defpoints layerproperties.

If Defpoints is the current layer, or select objects on defpoints and everywhere what displaying the object layer - shows ^nothing^

It would looks like a defect.

-

Think about 1xxxxx tools/application of the last four decades.

And so on.

[Moshe-A]

If we click a dimension, the grips are shown which can be stretched if desired.

go figure? if no defpoints seen no grips exist.

[sinha_nsit2]

So, why not make Defpoint hidden for the users?

[sinha_nsit2]

Maybe there is some technical reason which I do not understand. 

Click any object. Grips will be displayed. No Defpoint layer needed to store the definition points.

[cadffm]

Hi 

"if no defpoints seen no grips exist"

That's not right, we have grips without any geometric at this place.

Text osnaps, insertion point, node, geometric center, group center..

So, that's not a reason.

[cadffm]

Hey,

we are users, we have to guess and one possible reason - you can read above, 

compatibility.

I posted some possible problems with a simple from-now-invisible, because you asked about.

And invisible in lists, dialogs  incl. refering objects, is much more impossible.

Yes, there are ways to handle it fine, but the only one who now "why not", is AutoDESK.

[sinha_nsit2]

Let Defpoint exist for the purpose of dimensioning. It is needed by AutoCAD. We cannot question that.

I am only saying that make it hidden or unusable by the users. Any harm in this?

[cadffm]

Hi,

"It is needed by AutoCAD. We cannot question that."

Technically not needed! But it is in use still today.

"I am only saying that make it hidden or unusable by the users. Any harm in this?"

You asked the same some minutes before and I answered this question by some possible problems.

In older days, Acad (dxf/dwg) didn't had invissible layers, that's another problem with a possible change of the defpoints handling.

Didn't say impossible, just showing possible problems..