Architectural & Structural Scales

[mattdVF27J]

Does anyone have a nice set of blocks for this or simply have a file with all these, they would be willing to share? I would like to see how others are approaching scaling with ACAD. It seems quite confusing to me coming over from other software's where the scale seemed straight forward and were as easy as drawing a dimension to verify the scale bar.

What are the rules/best practices when it comes to scales for ACAD? Do they need to be in PS or MS or users choice? Do the page size or dwg units play a role in accuracy?

I've seen some scale bars that don't seem to make sense when specifically dealing with Arch scales. Many of these were predefined before my time. Its possible I'm mis-understanding the way these get used. Most of our in house scales are blocks that require attribute input.

My method for verifying - draw and dimension something in model space equivalent to the distance on the scale bar that resides in paper space. 

[pendean]

@mattdVF27J What other CAD software do you come from? It might help folks here with the correct guidance.

>>>...My method for verifying - draw and dimension something in model space equivalent to the distance on the scale bar that resides in paper space. ...<<<

Not sure what that means: in AutoCAD we all draw everything in modelspace at 1:1 scale all the time.

[mattdVF27J]

Yes, I too draw in model space but you have to set a viewport scale. So once I have done that. I go from the VP into MS and draw a line, say 5'. I then dimension that in paper space and move it over my scale bar. Say I'm using a civil scale of 1:5 (applied in PS). Then the 5' dimension should match the scale bar 5' marking.

[dany_rochefort]

@mattdVF27J  

Approaching Acad scales :

1 - Find out what the page setup in your current Layout or create a new page setup 

Example : Page Setup in Layout is A4 size (210mm X 297mm)

2 - In layout, create a viewport that is also 210mm X 297mm

3 - Now go to your modelspace and draw a rectangle measuring 210mm X 297mm

If you to zoom your Layout viewport (210mm X 297mm) onto your modelspace rectangle (210mm X 297mm) : You would be at a scale of A4 sheet 1:1

4 - Now scale your modelspace rectangle x 2 (420mm X 594mm) go back to layout viewport and zoom onto it :  You will be at a scale of A4 sheet 1:2. So on and so forth...

 Whatever the inital page setup dimensions are, go to model and draw a rectangle with those same dimensions so you start with 1 : 1 scale. Whatever you mulitply your modelspace rectangle by will equal your paperspace scale. Multiply that  1:1 rectangle by x100 for example, your paperspace scale is A4 sheet 1:100  

[mattdVF27J]

All seems inline with what I see and know so far.  We currently work on 11x17. Would just like to see anyone has a 

[paullimapa]

Not sure how other cad software does this but since you're drawing 1"=1 unit in model space and if you want a scale vport of 1"=5'-0" (which is not a typical Architectural scale), you always convert back to the lowest unit which in this case is inches: 5'x12=60.  While inside the paperspace vport (which means you're in model space) use the ZOOM command and enter 1/60xp to get the matching 1"=5'-0" scale.

I typically use the following Architectural scales:

1/2"=1'-0" or 1"=2'-0" or 1"=2x12=24 so Zoom = 1/24xp

1/4"=1'-0" or 1"=4'-0" or 1"=4x12=48 so Zoom = 1/48xp

1/8"=1'-0" or 1"=8'-0" or 1"=8x12=96 so Zoom = 1/96xp

1/16"=1'-0" or 1"=16'-0" or 1"=16x12=192 so Zoom = 1/192xp

[mattdVF27J]

I was using 1:5 as an easy math/ civil scale for explanation purposes. I somewhat follow what your saying regarding architectural scales. I dont follow on what "XP" means here. Or the Zoom to approach. All I know is that if you dimensions something in model space it should match the scale bar accordingly. Seems like a lot of mental gymnastics going on with all the ACAD variables.

[pendean]

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@mattdVF27J wrote:

...We currently work on 11x17. Would just like to see anyone has a ...

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Not sure you finished your post, and 11x17 is just a print result, in general AutoCAD users don't work "from there".

What software did you use before AutoCAD? It appears to be paper-size based.

Are you working in metric or imperial scales? ARCH and CIVIL never use the same units, wondering i that is what is confusing the matter at your end.

And why not show us what you find confusing at your end with regards to "scales", perhaps someone here can help decipher?

[paullimapa]

Since you're new to AutoCAD, that's why you're not aware of the ZOOM ##XP method of getting the proper scaling with Paperspace Vports.

AutoCAD also has made it easier for you by building in a number of the standard scales already in the default template. So when you select in Paperspace a Vport, and then click on the blue arrow that appears in the center of the Vport you'll see these predefined scales to choose from:

Or you can select the Vport, right mouse click and then on the cursor menu click on Properties to open up that palette and under Standard Scale you can select from that dropdown list:

Lastly, you can use the SCALELISTEDIT command to modify and add to this list:

The example of the 1/4"=1'-0" shown above has 0.25 = 12 which is same as entering 1 = 48  (0.25/0.25 = 12/0.25)

[mattdVF27J]

totally on the same page. However I would like to see the actual "scale bars" you are using in paper space to apply to those architectural scales. Reason I ask is because I think we have some incorrect ones floating around. I wanted to show how these should work instead of how they are deployed here. I was hopeful someone would share there scale bar block for those arch scales.

[mattdVF27J]

to add I have had zero luck figuring out how to create a "bar" or modify an existing block effectively. In the end I just need to be able to to know how to create the scale bar block effectively. Is it best to make one for ea scale? In my opinion I think that would work best. I have seen dynamic ones too.

 

 

[pendean]

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@mattdVF27J wrote:

to add I have had zero luck figuring out how to create a "bar" or modify an existing block effectively. In the end I just need to be able to to know how to create the scale bar block effectively. Is it best to make one for ea scale? In my opinion I think that would work best. I have seen dynamic ones too.

 

 

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You only need to create ONE single SCALEBAR, 1:1 scale, annotative text to resize based on your viewport's ANNOSCALE setting, and place it in MODELSPACE next to our modelspace content so it appears inside your viewport that is inside your 11x17 titleblock in paperspace.

Autodesk provides all of us with a free example of that in ToolPalettes ANNOTATION Tab, looks like this

HTH

[mattdVF27J]

See this is where the issue is. You're stating it should go in model space. Unfortunately co. policy has us placing it in PS.

Thank you for pointing that out in the tool bar! I'll have a look and maybe that will fill in some blanks. Though based on you saying this should be in model space it may just add confusion, can this also work in PS? Maybe not in the way you describe?

[paullimapa]

drawing grahic scales is just like drawing anything else at 1 inch = 1 unit

I've attached 1"=20'-0" which is a typical Engineering scale.

The graph goes from 1/4" which measures at 5' and then 1/2" measures as 10' and then 1 full inch measuring at 20'

This is one way to represent graphically the scale measurement.

Now when the printed sheet is half that size then the graph scales by half as well.

[mattdVF27J]

That only seems to give Civil scales not Arch?

[mattdVF27J]

Annotative is greyed out, cannot modify it? Appreciate all the assistance here.

[paullimapa]

If you have the time and want to learn how to modify Visibility States within a Dynamic block which is what you're looking at here then you may want to go through this on-line video tutorial:

AutoCAD Create a Block with Visibility Parameters - More Dynamic Block Tips | 2 Minute Tuesday - You...

If you rather not bother, then you'll have to go through the traditional method of creating separate Blocks for each graphic scale one of which I've already provided for you in my previous post.

It all depends on how much you want to dive into learning & using AutoCAD.

In my opinion, modifying Dynamic Blocks is not something a beginner should start learning AutoCAD with.

[mattdVF27J]

So to clarify, you guys are placing these scales in model space? Co. policy here requires we put it in PS

[paullimapa]

If I plot from Paperspace then I would place the graphics scale there. I don’t want the vport zoom xp factor to change it since it’s drawn 1 to 1. If I plot from Model layout then when I insert the graphics scale I would scale it up to the scale I plan to plot. This reverses what happens to it when the plot process scales it down to fit on a standard size sheet. Of course I’m talking about a graphics scale block that does not have any Annotative properties to scale itself up per the set Annotation scale which is the case with the graphics scale I provided for you from a previous post. 

[mattdVF27J]

I always plot from paper space. I don't care about it being dynamic it just needs to be accurate. The amount of explaining this takes is inherent to how confusing ACAD makes things.  I'm simply looking for a working arch scale bar that I can place in PS and the bars match with the paper space dims.

I came from Vectorworks where you could draw in either PS or MS like cad. However; plot size or paper size didnt matter. Scales bars were in the program and you grabbed the one you needed for your Paper space and dropped it in. It matched. Pretty simple stuff. Maybe I can share A file and you could have a look. Seems way to cumbersome at the moment to follow.