3D Curved hexagonal solid tessellation. SURFNETWORK

3D Curved hexagonal solid tessellation. SURFNETWORK

Snake_Plissken
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Message 1 of 16

3D Curved hexagonal solid tessellation. SURFNETWORK

Snake_Plissken
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Contributor

Hello people! I need help with a 3D solid where one of the plans has a twist. The hexagonal bricks need to tesselate perfectly in a curved wall. I can't get this perfect fit. I was trying to use SURFNETWORK and then convert to a solid but I can't get it to work. Please see annotated PDFs attached. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks guys!

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Message 2 of 16

Kent1Cooper
Consultant
Consultant

The Block just needs to be defined more accurately.  But I'm not sure what should remain where it is and what should be adjusted to fix it.  I drew LINEs [white] from its insertion point to the outer corners, on a full-tile Block Inserted at 0,0,0 and at zero rotation and scale factors of 1:

Kent1Cooper_0-1687959745755.png

Kent1Cooper_3-1687960528734.png

Zooming in, I expected the midpoint of that vertical Line to be at the insertion point, but it's not:

Kent1Cooper_1-1687959848607.png

The midpoint of that Line is this far from the insertion point:

Delta X = 0.071884, Delta Y = 0.096132, Delta Z = 0.000108

And I expected the corner edges of the tile to run radially from the insertion point, i.e. to coincide with the endmost portions of my white Lines, but they don't:

Kent1Cooper_2-1687960007962.png

And I looked at the midpoints of the top and bottom edges of the outer surface:

Upper: X = 0.099335 Y = 2387.362490 Z = -214.965189

Lower: X = -0.303606 Y = 2387.082958 Z = 218.047252
I expected the X values to both be zero, the Y values to be equal, and the Z values to be equal with opposite sign.

 

And the distances across the opposite corners on the outside face show that things don't line up right:

Lower left to upper right Distance = 499.804846, Angle in XY Plane = 359d55'58", Angle from XY Plane = 60d4'33"

Lower right to upper left Distance = 499.928004, Angle in XY Plane = 0d3'51", Angle from XY Plane = 300d1'22"

Side to side Distance = 499.797463, Angle in XY Plane = 0d0'10", Angle from XY Plane = 0d2'55"

The last distance is expected to be slightly different from the others, but those others should be the same, the angles in the XY plane should all be zero, etc.

 

I'm not sure what to suggest -- what (if anything) is in the right place, and what is the right size, to use as a basis for an accurate shape?

Kent Cooper, AIA
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Message 3 of 16

Snake_Plissken
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Hi Kent1Cooper

It seems you're radiating the edge faces from a single point. That would produce a ball shape when tessellated. The wall I need to create is vertical, but needs to run in an arc. Therefore, there is no 'chamfer' on the upper and lower faces. The white lines in the example below are radiating from 0,0,0. The upper face needs to radiate from approx. 0,0,250 and the lower face needs to radiate from approx. 0,0,-250 (I say approx. because the hexagon is 500mm from corner point to corner point and not side face to side face). The one I created is going to be inaccurate in many respects because I've tried to 'sculpt' it from an extruded curved polygon. 

 

If you were starting from scratch, how would you create a curved wall with hexagonal bricks with the dimensions on the outer face to be 500mm point to point with each brick to be 100mm thickness? 

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Message 4 of 16

Snake_Plissken
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Contributor

Sorry, I can see I misunderstood you're reply. Please ignore all of it except the last sentence. When I say 500mm point to point, that's 500mm on the arc. If the wall were to continue in a complete circle, it would be an exterior circumference of 15000mm exactly.

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Message 5 of 16

Kent1Cooper
Consultant
Consultant

Yes, I got the wrong idea with my radiating from a single point.  But even with the cylindrical arrangement, some of those values should still be equal, or zero, that were not quite.

 

So 15000mm circumference at tiles of 500mm means 30 tiles.  Thinking about it....

Kent1Cooper_0-1687976560646.png

One issue is that, while the top and bottom faces would be flat, to be really precise the sloped-face surfaces would be warped, because their top and bottom edges [yellow-circled above], since they radiate from the center axis at different angles, would not be parallel.  Also, I think to be really precise the red-circled edges would be not straight lines and not even arcs, but helical.

Kent Cooper, AIA
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Message 6 of 16

Kent1Cooper
Consultant
Consultant
Accepted solution

@Kent1Cooper wrote:

... the sloped-face surfaces would be warped, ....


You can get close to that by drawing Lines along the end edges of your cross-sections, and LOFTing between them, to get the white Surface here:

Kent1Cooper_0-1687977217460.png

But while that gives you the warp, its long edges are straight.  There's probably a way to draw a Helix of very small extent to define a path to Loft along.

EDIT:  I got that to happen in the attached drawing, with a Helix of 1/120 of a turn, and height of 250.  I just did the one edge, but maybe you can figure out the others.

Kent1Cooper_0-1687978063691.png

 

Kent Cooper, AIA
Message 7 of 16

Snake_Plissken
Contributor
Contributor

Fantastic! That's a perfect fit! Thanks for your help. I've managed to do the others by mirroring. I'll have to teach myself the process of using the helix because this will help me going forward. I've never created them before.

 

Thanks again! 

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Message 8 of 16

Washingtonn
Collaborator
Collaborator

another possible method...

 

Washingtonn_1-1688046431695.png

 

Message 9 of 16

Snake_Plissken
Contributor
Contributor

Hi @Kent1Cooper ,

 

      Can I ask one more question? I'm trying to use your suggested solution which tessellates perfectly. The only problem I have is the height. The DWG I originally attached must have been incorrect. The curved face of the hexagon I require is 500mm corner to corner, so the height surface to surface is somewhere around 433.0127mm. This should give an exterior circumference of exactly 15000mm.

 

The below is beyond my AutoCAD knowledge. Are you able to create a second file or screen record how it's done? I need the below statement to be a height of around 216.50635mm.

 

" I got that to happen in the attached drawing, with a Helix of 1/120 of a turn, and height of 250.  I just did the one edge, but maybe you can figure out the others."

 

Apologies, but you help is gratefully received.

 

Many thanks!

 

 

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Message 10 of 16

Snake_Plissken
Contributor
Contributor

Hi @Washingtonn,

 

     Many thanks for your reply too. I've tried this process but I seem to get a slight overlap on the inner edge of the diagonal faces. See attached. Is this something you experienced or am I missing something?

 

Many thanks! 

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Message 11 of 16

Kent1Cooper
Consultant
Consultant

@Snake_Plissken wrote:

.... the height surface to surface is somewhere around 433.0127mm. .... Are you able to create a second file or screen record how it's done? I need the below statement to be a height of around 216.50635mm. ....


Just open the file attached to my previous reply, pick the Helix which coincides with the inner edge of the Lofted Surface, and in the Properties palette:

Kent1Cooper_0-1688130827656.png

you can change the Height.  The Turn Height two slots below will change accordingly [that's what the total height would be if it went around one full turn].  Move the Line that coincides with the top edge of the Surface down to meet the new top of the Helix.  The Surface follows when I do that, but if yours isn't set to maintain associativity, you would need to do the LOFT again.

Kent Cooper, AIA
Message 12 of 16

Snake_Plissken
Contributor
Contributor

Ah! Many thanks! I was selecting the surface and not choosing the inner helix itself. The Geometry pallet changes for each. All sorted now. Thanks again! 

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Message 13 of 16

Washingtonn
Collaborator
Collaborator

The procedure I showed comes close to perfect HOWEVER I question if you really want "perfect". Keep in mind the both manufacturing and installation/construction processes.

 

Will these block be installed with mortar between them or just on the interior surface? Have you considered the tolerances for the block manufacturing process that the installers will encounter?

What happens if the mounting surface  - probably installed by others, is not perfectly round from top to bottom?

Does the wall consist only of the blocks or are they secured to other material?

You have to account for these possibilities unless you have unlimited funding so you can have the installers customize individual blocks.

 

I would recommend thinner material and setting an acceptable joint gap with a pattern dimension going from center line of joint to center line of joint in all directions. If you have to have a thicker block, taper the sides sufficient to allow mortar between them and to allow adjustments to the exterior surface pattern.

 

 

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Message 14 of 16

Snake_Plissken
Contributor
Contributor
Hi! These will be for a room division application, largely self supporting. They will have a wooden or aluminium internal structure and will be furnished in acoustic materials. Because of that, they'll have a relatively high tolerance. I just like to get the actual design perfect. Many thanks for the advice.
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Message 15 of 16

Snake_Plissken
Contributor
Contributor
Hi! I somehow managed to convert the mesh to a solid (which was what I wanted) I just don't know how I did it and I've not been able to do it again. How would you convert to a solid? I'm guessing I've changed to properties somehow. How would you convert this block to a solid?
Many thanks!
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Message 16 of 16

Kent1Cooper
Consultant
Consultant

@Snake_Plissken wrote:
... to convert the mesh to a solid (which was what I wanted) ....

I don't work in 3D enough to know how to do that, but Search this Forum -- the subject has come up before.

Kent Cooper, AIA