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Numbering system for multi-level terminals

Numbering system for multi-level terminals

Numbering terminals varies wildly from company to company, but all follow a similar pattern. The normal method is to start at '1' and number left to right or top to bottom depending if the terminal rail is horizontal or vertical. However some want also to show the internal and external connection, which is useful to the panel wiring team. It becomes slightly more complex when numbering multi-level terminals. Companies want to identify not only each terminal and the connection side, but the level too. Different companies have worked out different methods of doing this and all are effective for their purposes. The method I've chosen for this idea is simple effective, each terminal in a terminal rail is numbered uniquely 1,2,3,4.... etc. the levels are identified with T,M,L and the internal/external connections identified A & B respectively. I order to show this on the schematic I use the attributes available within the terminal symbol, namely 'X1PIN01, X2PIN01, X4PIN01 & X8PIN01', a simple adjustment using the symbol editor makes the relevant attribute is positioned appropriately. For the purpose of the company I work for we only draw schematics in horizontal ladder format, so we only need the X2PIN01 & X8PIN01 attributes as these are the top and bottom connection points. When using the tool to mark internal/external connections it adds the relevant letter to the attribute X#TERMDESC01 depending on where you click around the terminal symbol, 'I' for the internal and 'E' for external. So for my purposes I click top or bottom of the symbol depending on which is the internal or external connection point. This then shows in the schematic as the terminal number and the letter 'A' in the internal side and 'B' on the external side. For multi-level terminals, I use 'TA', 'TB' for the top level, 'MA', 'MB' for the middle level and simply 'A', 'B' for the bottom level (See attached picture). This all works well until you come to use the terminal rail renumber tool in the terminal strip editor. When renumbering the terminals you are given the option to number 'Per Terminal' or 'Per Level'. this may seem perfect, but it is not so, if you select 'Per Terminal' you would expect it to number each level in each terminal with the same number, as terminal 1 has 3 levels, but it is still one terminal so therefore should have the same sequential number, but no! AutoCAD Electrical numbers each level uniquely. This causes confusion to the panel wiring team, because it's not clear which symbol belongs to which terminal. I have talked to Autodesk and they say that it is working as designed, I see the way AutoCAD Electrical is working for this as incorrect, and I blame the fact that the software engineers are not electrical engineers so are oblivious to how it should work. As it stands, I am forced to renumber all the terminals manually, which when there are hundreds of terminals in a rail, it takes a ridiculous amount of time.

8 Comments
rhesusminus
Mentor

If you look around in these forums, you'll see that Autodesk is looking at everything as "as designed". This software is "dead". The amount of work going into updating the way terminals work just isn't justifiable.

 

"All terminals have 2 connection points" is the truth according to them. Well, try to do this one with that philosophy:
1992220000 AIO23 1.5 2SI | Weidmüller Product Catalogue (weidmueller.com)

 

Here are the news for release 2025:

AutoCAD Electrical 2025 Help | What's New in AutoCAD Electrical 2025 Toolset | Autodesk

 

Drawing Lists in Automatic reports - Should've been implemented years ago, but finally here.
Better sorting options in the BOM - Fantastic! Finally!

Activity Insights?!?! This a new base AutoCAD feature, and they need to implement it somehow with Electrical. Noone will use this.

Wire type synchronization - It's a bug fix to the poorly implemented functionality we got for 2024. 

 

Then, some minor bug-fixes.

 

I hope you feel you get your money's worth.

 

Are you btw the "Aceri David" from back in the days?

 

david_s_barrow
Explorer
Hello rhesusminus, I am Aceri David, though I haven't done any work for them for many years. As you know, I have worked with AutoCAD Electrical since it came out on the market, and though I am familiar with other electrical design software's, I do use AutoCAD Electrical most of the time. On saying that one of the other software's I use does number the multi-level terminals the way I have stated in my post, so it's a tad frustrating when coming back to ACADE and having to manually adjust things. Unfortunately, being a contractor, I cannot dictate to the companies I work with to keep their software up to date, I am currently working with ACADE 2020, and though I constantly recommend that they update to the latest or at least a more recent version, they seem stuck in their ways.
rhesusminus
Mentor

There's really no need to update from release 2020.

New features 2017 -> 2023: https://youtu.be/TDCSXA83hTU

New features 2024:

https://youtu.be/K_bREyhRl4E

https://youtu.be/h8f4G83iSFk

 

How's Electrical Designer these days?

 

david_s_barrow
Explorer

Unfortunately Electrical Designer is fading into obscurity, I haven't come across it for many years.

oleh_m
Enthusiast

I also have this problem.
I'm amazed that a product that has been in development for so many years can't do basic things.

david_s_barrow
Explorer

@oleh_m 

From what I can see, Autodesk have given up developing ACADE.

Thanks for your response @oleh_m, I totally agree, if you look at the What's new in AutoCAD Electrical since say 2017, you will see that the list has got shorter and shorter. Plus most of the features they have added are pointless, however, one feature that I'm happy with is, when changing the Code in a cross reference arrow, it now asks if you want to update the corresponding arrow too (I don't know when they added that but I like it :-).

I'm now using 2024, and it's hasn't improved, in fact they have added more bugs, which are very annoying. Just two days ago it totally locked up and I had to do a full reset.

rhesusminus
Mentor

@david_barrowLCNWY send me a pm if you want to talk about alternatives 😁

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