terminals and wiring numbers

[labjac]

Hallo

Hope somebody can explain or give me a solution for the dilema.

I got a terminal with 3 levels. the TOP level is used for IO feedback. (Inputs or outputs in the field), the terminals is placed in junction boxes all around the plant and using 18 core cable back to the main panel.. The middle level is used for 24VDC and the bottom terminal is used for 0VDC... We normally place a couple of terminals in the junction box and bridge all the middle terminals with bridge pieces for 24VDC and bridge the bottom terminals for 0VDC, this just makes it easier to connect sensors etc..

But the issues is as follow:

From the main panel we will supply core 1 and 2 with the power and connect it to the middle and bottom terminal, this will be fed from a circuit breaker from main panel to the junction box. The wire numbers should be all the same on the middle and bottom terminals because of the bridge pieces, I cannot use a source and destination arrow because then it want to create a wire connection to the terminal which is not correct.

Can somebody please explain how I can solve this?

[testsubject]

What you want to do is create a special wire layer with the word JUMPER in it (i.e., JUMPER-INTERNAL and JUMPER-BAR are the two that I have). Any wires that are on this layer will not appear in the Wire To/From list but will be used to transfer the wire number to the wires attached to the terminal. You are then able to use source/destination codes to transfer the wire number. The way I depict jumpers is to bring the jumper into the terminal only from the side and reserve the top an bottom of the terminal for true wires.

I do not use the jumper part of the Terminal Strip Editor because it does not show the bridge on the panel drawing. I still have to add this during the panel design.

Hope this helps...

[labjac]

Hallo

Thanks for the tip, I create a new layer calle Wire_jumpers and see it is transferring the number and doesn't assign any new terminals. Only small issue is that I got a three tair / level terminal and my junction boxes got almost 20 terminals inside, meaning that the reference number of the source wire is getting to large for the page... 😞

Wish there was a way to get the terminal to assign wire numbers according to the internal wire bridge on the terminal, will make sense...

I will keep you posted maybe there is another way?

Regards,

[testsubject]

I am not quite understanding what you are describing.

If you could provide a picture or two it would help.

[labjac]

Hallo

OK, i'm going to try and explain the problem, I'm tairing my hair out with the terminal association, I'm probably either over complicating it or not understand it at all.

I tried the jumper_wire level but then the terminal got a source wire number at the bottom connection which is OK, but the top of the terminal got a different number.

I GIVE UP.... :-((((

[testsubject]

From what I can gather from the images you sent, the first thing I want you to check is that you are using the right terminal. I think you want to be using this one.

I cannot tell for sure without looking at the actual dwgs but it appears that you re showing the same physical terminal more than once per project. Is that true?

Maybe if you can provide the drawings themselves (just a couple would suffice) and the project they are part of I can determine what is going on...

[labjac]

Hallo



Is there a change I can give you a call..



I'm so stuck it's pretty irritating, I just need to find a way to show the
terminal arrangements correctly, and now it's doing something I cannot
figure out.



Regards,

Jacques

[labjac]

Hallo

Yes, that the terminal I'm using.. but it's all now out of control... I'm pulling my hair out, not sure which way to go anymore.

Can I send you a link to the project, will put it in google drive? (It to large for upload)...

Regards,

[testsubject]

Go ahead and post a link. I will take a look at it this evening and get back to you.

[labjac]

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7r1S9YLTX85bHR2SG94Q3FKNVE&usp=sharing

[testsubject · Accepted solution]

I did take a look at the project you provided but I could not find any drawings that matched the images above. The few terminals I did check were all single level. Maybe you can provide me with the information on which drawing(s) that you want me to look at?

I did look at the panel drawing and it is pretty bare...

[labjac]

Hallo



Page 07 is circuit breaker feeding JB-01, Page 50 is the ZPA units with the
terminals.



Thanks for looking.



Best Regards,

[labjac]

Hallo

Did you manage to find the correct pages discussed?

These terminals is getting the best of me, please see pictures below, the connection is simple, 18 core cable running from Main MCB panel to junction box that got 16 three level terminals, terminal 1 - 16 I bridge bottom and middle level on all 16 terminals, this will feed the 24VDC and 0VDC, I use core 1 for 24VDC and core 2 for 0VDC in the 18 core cable, core 3 - 18 are used for IO's.. Meaning that there is no connection on the Bottom and middle connection except for terminal 1, the supply is feeding via the bridge pieces, the other side is used for the field devices, meaning a 3 wire sensors will be wired on terminal two, meaning bottom level will feed 24VDC to sensor, middle terminal will supply 0VDC to sensors, and the sensor will give feedback to top level of the terminal.

But below you can see that autocad again decided to add terminals to the Junction box which is not needed,

[testsubject]

I am sorry I did not get back to you sooner.

The reason you are seeing the yellow terminals is because you are exceeding the total number of wires that are allowed on one side of the terminal.

You need to show each "1" (24VDC) and "2" (0VDC) terminal and associate it with one of the other (3-18) terminals. Every place that you use 24VDC and 0VDc, you need to show a terminal there. Then the wires that will represent the bridge need to be on the "Jumper" layer I talked about earlier. The way you have it drawn, all the wires are going back to one terminal. This is a problem.The use of angled "T" implies the direction that the wire will go.

Try putting a terminal near each 0VDC and 24VDC of the ZP components.

IEC schematics are not as forgiving as JIC style schematics.

[labjac]

Hallo



Thanks for the tip with the tee tree vs dot tee, the wiring seems to be OK
now with the devices, but the last issue I'm still battling with is the
wiring number, I understand you say I must create a jumper_wire layer which
I've done, I can then transfer the wiring number, but the problem is the
source arrow then show to many connections and the wire number after the
terminal at 0VDC and 24VDC still uses it's own number.. Sorry for all the
simple question, but for some reason I cannot get this right, the wire
bridge inside the terminals surely should carry the number, there should be
any difference between the bridge and an actual wire..

[labjac]

Hallo

Sorry drawing didn't attach...

[labjac]

Hallo

Also added the jumper wire if I understand you correct, you will see it carry the number to the one part of the terminal, but at the top part of the terminal it doesn't carry the number.

Maybe I miss understand what you saying, but I honestly cannot figure this out.

[testsubject]

Jacques,

I am pretty busy right now to be able to provide a detailed response.

We might be able to do this faster over the phone.

Send me a private message with your phone number a when you are available (I am CST).

I will do my best to get back to you as soon as I am able.

In the mean time, The reason you are seeing multiple numbers by the source is because you have more than one destination. This is typical when you do that. I do not recommend it but others work with it.

[labjac]

Hallo

I cannot find the tab to send a private message, when I post it's doesn't ask for public or private.. Any idea's?

[testsubject]

If you click on my name it calls up the About window. On the right side there is a"Contact me" section which says "send this user a private message"

Click on that.