Panel BOM (including Schematic Components)

[Thomasbatson]

Hello,

I have an issue with my BOM.  We are using Panel BOM then checking to include schematic components not shown in panel.  I don't know how far this is reaching, but I am noticing a component in my schematic that is not showing on this BOM, however it does show if I run a Schematic BOM (both normal tallied).  This is the same in purchase list.  I am using ACADE 2018 but have attached a drawing saved in 2013 showing the 2 BOM's.  The one on the right is schematic with rev cloud around the component in schematic not showing on Panel BOM (in the title block).

Has anyone else seen this or know of a fix?  

Thank you.

[Thomasbatson]

I have a Schematic and Panel drawing attached.  I first place the schematic fuses (main catalog number being the 1492-H5, multiple catalog is fuse (just for reference this is different than what we have done, I am just trying to change our process).  In the panel drawing I use Schematic List as always, selected all 6 fuses then insert, used the Spacing for Footprint Insertion dialog box to insert y-distance at -.47, selected Suppress edit dialog and prompts to insert them all.

Now in the panel drawing, in the Insert/Edit dialog box for the fuses it has the 1492-H5 with the 1492-N37 assembly code, but the Multiple Catalog is not there (the multiple catalog is there on the schematic component).  

Since the multiple catalog did not show up after inserting components through schematic list, the Panel BOM doesn't show the fuses.  I have to go back into the panel Insert/Edit dialog box, select the Schematic List button and then select the fuse.  

I hope that makes sense but let me know if you need more about that process.  

Thanks.

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

Thanks. I am out of the office the rest of today but will look at this tomorrow and get back to you. Thanks for all the details on how you insert from the Schematic List. That will really help me to reproduce the results you are getting and narrow down the exact cause.

Regards,

Pat

[Thomasbatson]

Hello Pat,

After messing with this a little more last night it looks like if I have the Multiple Catalog [+] checked it breaks the connection of the main and multiples during insert, even if I select the main.  I know you stated to not check that, but I was under the impression it was so I don't select the multiple part number and only select the main.  

Is there a way to keep the connection of main and multiple catalog part numbers even if the multiple is selected?  In the mean time I will let our group know this is how ACADE works.  

As always thanks for your help through this to understand it.

[PatMurnen_Adsk · Accepted solution]

There might be some confusion on what that check box is meant for. If checked then it means that the list of schematic components changes to show a line item for each schematic component (even if it doesn't have a main catalog), and a line item for each multiple catalog assigned to the schematic component. Some examples:

1. a schematic component with no catalog assigned will have one line item in the list

2. a schematic with a main catalog value will have one line item in the list

3. a schematic with no main catalog and one multiple catalog assigned will have 2 line items in the list. It would look something like this in the list where the multiple catalog has the prefix [+]

4. a schematic catalog with a main catalog and 3 multiple catalog value will have 4 line items in the list.

The idea is that you can insert a separate footprint for each of the catalog values on the schematic, one for the main catalog and one for each multiple catalog.

If it is unchecked, then every schematic component gets one line item in the list. That line item represents the entire device, including all catalog values, and the footprint should automatically get all catalog values when inserted from the list. 

Does that answer your questions and concerns?

Regards,

Pat

[Thomasbatson]

That does and falls in line exactly with what I am seeing.  That makes sense reading the help topic now, but we still thought it maintained the connection of components.  As far as this is concerned I am good and now have a great understanding of the function.  Thank you.

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

Sounds like you are ok now and I don't want to bug you, but if you have time can you explain what you mean by "we still thought it maintained the connection of components". Even with the check box cleared the schematic and panel components are still connected\related to each other. That is accomplished with the Tag (or Inst\Loc|Tag if using combined tagging). So later if you edit one of them you are prompted to update the related component.

-Pat

[Thomasbatson]

As far as tag we do see that connection.  What I meant by connection was that the Main catalog and multiple catalog were always combined to each other.   So if the schematic component had main and multiples the panel component would as well (even if we selected the multiple item) because we assigned them all on the schematic.  Either way, if the Panel BOM (including schematic components) sees only the multiple on the panel it would know to include the Main schematic components not referenced on the panel.  As you stated, we do understand that anything with the same tag number (across the project) are connected to each other.  What I plan to change for our group process is what we assign as the main and multiples, and not check the Multiple catalog [+] box when we insert through schematic list.  Sorry for the confusion.   

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

Sounds like we are saying the same thing but in a different way. If you insert the panel with it unchecked, the one footprint gets all the catalog values and the Panel BOM is complete. If you check the box and insert each line item for that Tag then the Panel BOM is complete. If you check the box and do not insert all the line items for that Tag then the Panel BOM can be incomplete even if you check Full: Include schematics not on panel. This last one is the issue I logged.

Regards,

Pat

[Anonymous]

Pat,

I am new to ACAD Electrical and have used it to learn and design 3 control panels recently.  I have read this thread and similar ones and Blogs regarding the ASSYCODE method of assemblies typically used to depict multiple items that need to appear on a BOM from Panel footprints or Schematics or either or both.

I would be curious to obtain your input on which method is preferred or more prevalent in creating catalog entries and/or footprints for the following:

Fuse Blocks (fixed part number) and Fuses (variable part numbers).
Relay (fixed part number) and matching Base (preferred part number chosen as company standard)
Enclosure (fixed part number) and many optional accessories available as individual parts selected from a larger assembly of components.  Example:  Enclosure + optional subpanel(s), deadpan, mounting hardware, pocket, vent, shelf, light, etc.

Thanks in advance.

-- John C.

[JeffatPrimex]

In the beginning there was Schematic BOMs then came the Panel BOMs and I stopped and thought how confusing when I want only ONE BOM so I created schematic TAG blocks for those miscellaneous parts not shown on the schematics. I try to keep things simple and this works out well for us.

As far as your fuse blocks and relays, assembly codes work great for those.

Best regards,
Jeff 

[Anonymous]

Jeff -- We deploy a similar method and put the related footprint blocks on a non-plotting layer. 

-John C.

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

John C.

I can help you if you are trying to figure out how to use a feature in AutoCAD Electrical but I will leave it up to the people on this forum who use the product in their work to answer your questions about recommendations. 

Regards,

Pat Murnen

[Anonymous]

I think I can grasp the MULTICAT method.  It seems rather straightforward.  It would seem with this method that one could use the main catalog entry as the FUSE (so the rating would show up in the footprint)... assign the footprint to the appropriate fuse holder, and assign the fuse holder in the MULTICAT interface.  The drawback here is that the footprint for an actual fuse is not realistically represented and that the user must be cognizant of the fuse+holder combination.  

An alternative would be to assign the fuse holder as the main catalog entry, assign the footprint to same, and then select the appropriate fuse via MULTICAT item selection.  The problem with this is that the Rating1 entry in the footprint is tied to the holder and must be manually entered to match the fuse rating.  Is there a way to have the fuse's rating represented in the fuse holder's footprint without manually typing it?

The ASSYCODE method is not very intuitive to me.  Nate's blog uses generic CAT entries and the examples were not very helpful to me.  Would anyone care to share screen shots of their specific database entries and BOM results for a simple Fuse+Fused Term Block example using the ASSYCODE method? the MULTICAT method?

Thanks in advance.

-- John C.

[JeffatPrimex]

We just show the holder and the holder block is mapped to the fuse catalog number + assemblycode. If I were to start over I would still use assemblycodes but make the code the catalog number of the child part instead of just a number. This method should reduce the amount of records in the tables. So you would set the assemblylist value on all your child parts to match their catalog number. There is a limit of 24 characters in the footprint assemblycode field so in some instances it may better to use just a number and keep an assembly cheat sheet at hand.

Best regards,
Jeff

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Jeff.

I am still struggling with the database structure and mechanics of using the assembly code approach.  🤔

Would it be possible to see a dwg example and screenshot of the applicable database entry or entries?

Regards,

John C.

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

John, Not sure if this would help but there is a section at the bottom of this Help topic, http://help.autodesk.com/view/ACAD_E/2020/ENU/?guid=GUID-3A8EABBA-D29F-46E7-9E4E-DE773CA1D424, that gives steps on how to set up the relationship between the main catalog and a subassembly. Scroll all the way to the bottom to the Set up Subassemblies in the Catalog Database section.

-Pat

[JeffatPrimex]

It's not that complex the assemblycode (Parent) value has to have a matching assemblylist (Child) value. It got more complex when they added multiple call outs in the parent assemblycode value ie (qty,catno;qty,catno) the program parses out the assemblycode to get the quantity and catalog numbers of the child(s).

Example:

 

Records in the GF table:

record 1 is the parent.

You could just as well use a number but you would probably want a cheat sheet handy to identify the assembly 

Example:

again record 1 is the parent.

hope that helps.

Best regards,

Jeff

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Jeff.

That is making more sense now. 

What does the entry for GFI231 look like in the BOM?

Are the two subassembly parts easily found in the BOM?  Can the BOM be sorted by MFG and have the Steel City parts appear elsewhere in the BOM, yet still traceable to GFI231 (via duplicated TAG1 entries for the subcomponents)?

We typically sort/itemize by MFG first, then Catalog entry.  We also autosequence such that  Leviton parts would appear before Steel City parts and the bubbles for these items would be something like (12)(41)(42).  I am thinking that the BOM in this case would order items like this?

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

41

42

13

14

.

.

.

39

40

43

44

...

Our current system of creating footprints for subassembly parts makes it easier for us to procure parts and find them in the BOM.  Not sure if the  ASSYCODE method is the answer for us.

Attached is a typical BOM for us.

Do you mind sharing the BOM for tag GFI231?

Regards,

John C.Example BOM, Sort by MFG, CATALOG

[JeffatPrimex]

This is just an example of the GFI filtered by test locaiton and sorted by mfg. The report format is "Display in Tallied Purchase List Format"

 

Best regards,
Jeff

[testsubject]

One thing that has not been mentioned yet is that if you want to have every part have a unique item number you need to use multiple catalog; AssemblyCode/AssemblyList does not assign unique item numbers. All subs carry the item number of the parent. This is one of the reasons I do not use assembly....