Panel BOM (including Schematic Components)

[Thomasbatson]

Hello,

I have an issue with my BOM.  We are using Panel BOM then checking to include schematic components not shown in panel.  I don't know how far this is reaching, but I am noticing a component in my schematic that is not showing on this BOM, however it does show if I run a Schematic BOM (both normal tallied).  This is the same in purchase list.  I am using ACADE 2018 but have attached a drawing saved in 2013 showing the 2 BOM's.  The one on the right is schematic with rev cloud around the component in schematic not showing on Panel BOM (in the title block).

Has anyone else seen this or know of a fix?  

Thank you.

[rhesusminus]

Is this dummy fuse drawn in the schematic, or is it just a multi catalog component for another symbol?

[Thomasbatson]

I have the dummy fuse as the main component and the 1492-H5 as the multiple catalog 1.  Odd thing is, I am working on a multiple panel project and this is only happening on this one (so far).  I've tried copying this one to another project and vise-versa (it shows in the other projects and not this one).  Just not sure what to check since I can't really duplicate it in another project.  Catalog check shows fine which is why I guess it's showing on schematic BOM.  

Thanks for checking in on this.

[rhesusminus]

And, if you check this symbol in the panel drawing, if it's there, using the surf utility, do the footprint also have the same part numbers/multi catalog?

[Thomasbatson]

I have inserted the 1492-H5 through schematic list using multiple catalog.  When I use surfer, select the panel symbol it shows me the p and the #, I select the P and it does take me to the schematic component.  I'm not sure, is this just a fluke thing?  I have manually added to my BOM and it looks like the only one missing.

[rhesusminus]

Can you send me the project/drawings? So that I don't have to draw it up manually?

If you don't want everyone to see them, you can upload them here: https://www.dropbox.com/request/8ZKO35ekRW4doeTuxa5v

[Thomasbatson]

I have uploaded a copy of the project to your dropbox.  I also just uploaded 2 drawings from a test project that is working.  I thought originally it was the layout but then my test showed the components just fine in the BOM.

[rhesusminus]

I have no problem replicating this.

I've attached a small demo-project here.

If you run a Panel BOM with "include schematic components..." checked, the "main" part number from the schematic symbol don't appear in the list.

Seems like a bug, but maybe @PatMurnen_Adsk could have a look at it?

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

Hi,

Here is how the option, "Full: include schematic components not referenced on panel", works. The program gathers all the panel components. Then it gathers all the schematic components and looks for a matching panel footprint based on Tag (or Inst\Loc\Tag if using combined tagging). If a match is found then that schematic component is already accounted for on the panel and its catalog value is not even looked at.

So, that causes the problem you ran into when you have inserted just one part of a component with multiple catalog. If you are using the option to insert Multiple Catalog separately on the panel, rather than a panel footprint that also carries all multiple catalog values you would need to insert panel footprints for all the multiple catalog as a workaround.

This is a known issue and has been logged. I can add information to it to help the team prioritize.

Sorry I didn't have a better answer for you on this issue.

Regards,

Pat

[Thomasbatson]

I see what you are saying and will make sure to adjust our process. Thank you both for the help to understand this. Is this one the ideas forum I can look at or vote up or somewhere else?

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

I think the best way to let the team know how important this is to your work is for me to add some information to the logged issue. Information that can help the team prioritize would be: If this is a frequent workflow, how many users affected, have there been any cost impacts to your company, etc. If you provide that information I will add it to the logged issue.

Regards,

Pat

[Thomasbatson]

Good to know, I am out of the office bit will get those details and post it on Monday. Thank you.

[Thomasbatson]

Good morning Pat.  Inserting panel components from multiple catalog happens on every panel design and for a variety of different reasons, the most common being for fuse holders.  We do this so during our schematic build every component is accounted for instead of having to go back through the project to count how many fuse holders (or other components).  We have 8 people doing design this immediately affects, however the biggest impact is during startup.  For our main issue, if fuses aren't shown on the BOM it could cause delays and as most projects go the timeline is normally very tight.  Common fuses (like the 1/4 inch) aren't so bad but for specialty fuses it could delay to re-order if not in stock.  We also use this for a variety of other reasons, like handle type for disconnect.  We have options for handle type so we use that in multiple catalog to avoid many different assembly codes.  

For costs to our company, that is a harder one.  The direct costs for these parts are not too bad.  For larger projects, it would cost more time to catch these items and if it doesn't get caught during our tech review it could delay install/startup.  

We are just thinking since there is the option to insert multiple catalog items it shouldn't mess up the process and BOM.  For now we will just insert everything, but that causes some more time to design either from inserting components to creating additional symbols so they can be inserted.  

We just seems to be having issues finding the best process for the BOM.  It seems this process (as you explained in your reply) also impacts the sorting of the BOM that I had a previous case with.  

We know there is a lot of design and programming behind the BOM and inserting components but any help with these would be very much appreciated here so thank you for your help.  If you need anything else let me know.

[PatMurnen_Adsk · Accepted solution]

Hi, thanks for all the information. I added it to the logged issue.

My recommendation is that you use one of these methods:

1. Show a panel footprint for each catalog value on the single schematic component. So if the schematic component has a main catalog and one multi-catalog value then insert 2 panel footprints one with the main catalog and one with the multi-catalog.

2. insert the panel footprint with the exact same catalog values as the schematic. If the schematic has a main catalog and 1 multiple catalog value, then the footprint should have the same. 

3. If you leave the schematic component off the panel completely then use the option for Full: Include schematic components not on the panel.

Any of these methods will result in a complete BOM.

Also, if you haven't already logged a support issue, please do that through your normal method. Support may want to get more information and add all that to the logged issue.

Regards,

Pat

[Thomasbatson]

We have decided to add everything to panel, like your option 1.  Thank you for your help and suggestions.  I will mark this as the solution for now but will add a support case as well.

[Thomasbatson]

Pat,

I have entered a case with Autodesk but would like to run something else by you in the meantime.  As I was going through this process and typing a process to send to my group I ran into something that may (or may not) have "fixed" the issue.  I have attached a Word document that describes what I see.  

What I did was inserted the fuse on the panel using Schematic List, then in the Panel Layout - Component  Insert/Edit dialog box I selected Schematic List. In the Schematic Tag List dialog box selected my fuse then OK.  This now shows my multiple catalog for my component.  

I reran the Panel BOM to include Schematic Components and the new BOM shows ALL of my fuses (10 in my example).  

I only ran this test twice but seems like it works.  Is there a disconnect when inserting the panel component through schematic list compared to selecting the fuse using schematic list (as explained above) that doesn't work when inserting but does when selecting?  

I hope that makes sense and might help lead to a fix.  In the meantime we plan to insert fuses in panel but seems like if that ever does start working we would then get duplicates.  

Thank you again.

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

I didn't try this method but I believe you are ending up following my #2 suggestion in my previous post:

• insert the panel footprint with the exact same catalog values as the schematic. If the schematic has a main catalog and 1 multiple catalog value, then the footprint should have the same.

You can achieve this same thing by using the Schematic List command on the Panel ribbon tab as shown here -

Just make sure not to check the option Multiple Catalog as shown here -

Then each panel footprint inserted will carry all the catalog information from the schematic component.

Either method should provide all the catalog information in the Panel BOM report since the panel footprint carries it all.

Regards,

Pat

[Thomasbatson]

That is how we insert our panel components.  In my attached images, the multiple catalog did not show up even if I insert with Schematic List.  It wasn't until I used the additional option (Schematic List button on Panel Layout -Insert/Edit dialog) that they showed up (Last image on attachment).  I just saw a difference so hoped it might help the issue.

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

So it sounds like you are saying that even with that box unchecked that I showed in my image, the panel component isn't getting the main catalog and multiple catalog values when inserted from this dialog? If that is the case, can you provide a small project with one schematic component that I can see if I can reproduce this on? This is not a known issue and needs to be documented and logged. Sorry, if I missed this issue at the start of this thread.

Regards,

Pat

[Thomasbatson]

We were trying to change things up on this end which is when this came up.  I will get a project together and attach.  Thanks.