Modify symbol editor pin name

[s.bergeron]

Hi,

I'm currently designing a couple of custom dynamic autocad electrical blocks and there are a couple things that I cannot seem to be able to do. I would like to be able to rename the pin designator inside of the symbol editor if possible (see attached picture for clarity). I'd like to be able to name the pin to the left of my block a certain name, like say 1L, 2L, 3L, etc... and 1R, 2R, 3R for the right pins. This would only be the symbol editor pin designator.

Right now, the symbol editor can only show simple numeric character like 1, 2, 3, etc... Is there a way to rename these pin designator to the above mentioned number for clarity's sake?

Feel free to request any info that would be useful in understanding the issue.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

This can be done by entering the value (in your case  1L, 2L, 3L, etc... and 1R, 2R, 3R) into the default field of the "Edit Attribute Definition" which can be opened by double clicking the TERMXX. where XX is terminal number starting from 01.

[jseefdrumr]

Ramesh has the right of it...this is how you display pin numbers.

However, I have to ask: have you searched this forum for topics on dynamic blocks? You may want to do that, before going further. Depending on what you're wanting here, they probably won't work. I mean, the blocks will work as designed, but they won't function properly as ACADE symbols. Once you use a dynamic function of a dynamic block, ACADE loses track of it and the usual result is it stops showing up in reports, stops being affected by update functions, etc.

This has been an ongoing issue in this software since...forever, and it doesn't look like it will be fixed. My personal rule of thumb is, if the block has attributes that ACADE uses for ANY FUNCTION, then I don't make it dynamic.

Wish I had better news

[s.bergeron]

Thanks for both of your prompt replies!

@Anonymous I did try to change the text of the terminals but it didn't seem to work, I'll investigate further, maybe I did something wrong.

@jseefdrumr Hmm, that is not something I had thought about. I didn't want to involve any visual basic in all of this for the moment as I don't have that much time to spend on the subject, but I feel it may be necessary... Would you say developping a custom tool in visual basic is a better option for what I'm trying to do? I'm thinking of having the tool do the changes from a custom command or tool window and then do a ATTSYNC or something along these lines.

[jseefdrumr · Accepted solution]

First, a comment about the pin numbers: these should exist as attribute definitions in the source block. For any attribute, you have three fields to fill in. The first one is the attribute's name (TERMxx) in your case. The second one, 'prompt', is not really needed when using ACADE commands. The last one, 'value', is where you input the individual pin number for that TERMxx attribute. The other thing is to check out that attribute's visibility, make sure it's set to 'visible'. The 'pin numbers' in the Edit Component dialog box, in your original post, reference the Pin List that is part of the catalog information. As far as I know, the pin list and the pin designations in the TERMxx attributes aren't connected; in other words, the software doesn't fill in the values in the edit dialog by reading what's in the block, or vice versa. I'm thinking that these values have to be manually maintained to ensure that they are the same between catalog and symbol. I could be wrong on that though, hopefully someone will chime in with more info.


I don't know much about VB so I can't really weigh in there. I can, however, line out what I think is happening with dynamic blocks in ACADE, which may help you find a work around. But, understand that it's all unverified guesswork on my part, it's just an opinion based on my knowledge of how the software works along with things other users have posted on this and other forums. I could very easily be wrong about this.

That said, if you find a way to get dynamic blocks to work in ACADE, no matter how convoluted, there will probably be people interested in how that's done. Please post back here, or create a new post, to share such a solution. The community will be grateful!

So, my theory:
Everything you do in ACAD gets entered into an internal drawing database, and each object you draw gets a designation in that database called a 'handle'. So, even if you put the exact same block in a drawing nine different times, each instance gets its own unique handle while all other information stays the same. In this way, the software can track individual objects even if they are copies or some other sort of duplicate instance of the object.

Every time you use a dynamic function in a dynamic block, ACAD changes its handle, because it is now a 'new' object.

But, ACADE doesn't really seem to see that the handle changed. Somewhere in its code, I think that it maintains that original handle information, and it has no way to 'reconnect' to a dynamic block that has been dynamically changed. So, when you run a report, or an update, or any of a pretty big number of other commands, ACADE continues looking for that handle, and when it isn't found the software just skips it and moves on.

I've put this theory out on these forums several times. No one has refuted it, but not many have spoken in support of it either. All any of us can do is guess, because Autodesk has been pretty silent on the issue. As I said earlier, this has always been a thing in ACADE, probably since the day dynamic blocks came out. It appears to have to do with how ACADE was coded to work -- coding which originally took place long, long before dynamic blocks were a thing.

I'm not a coder or programmer, so I literally don't have the skills it would take to tackle this. Plus, I feel like that's something Autodesk should do ... we shouldn't HAVE to try for a workaround on such a major feature of vanilla ACAD. Dynamic block support should have 1) already been a thing, or 2) something that Autodesk informed us it wouldn't implement. It's not like the forums have been silent on this issue, or the Idea Station. The silence from Autodesk on this specific subject speaks louder than anything, and I'm left with conclusion that they aren't interested in fixing this at all.

So again, if you find a way to use dynamic blocks in ACADE so that they function like normal ACADE blocks, I'm all ears. Lots of other users will be too. Best of luck!

[rhesusminus · Accepted solution]

Just a small FYI on dynamic blocks...

AutoCAD rule: "ALL block instances with the same name, must graphically look the same"

Attributes however, might differ between the instances (To have different texts on the different instances).

This is where dynamic blocks creates a problem for AcadE.

I modified this symbol quickly to have two visibility states:

"Lightning On" is the default state. If I use the LIST command in AutoCAD, I can see that the block NAME is "VANB1"

Command: LI
LIST 1 found

                  BLOCK REFERENCE  Layer: "WIREFIXED"
                            Space: Model space
                   Handle = 10a4
       Block Name: "VAN1B"
                at point, X= 287.5336  Y= 444.1228  Z=   0.0000
   X scale factor:    1.0000
   Y scale factor:    1.0000
   rotation angle:      0
   Z scale factor:    1.0000
  Scale uniformly: No
  Allow exploding: Yes
      Visibility1: Lightning On

If I change to visibility "Lightning Off", and do a list again, you can see that the block name is still "VANB1", but there has been a small change:

Command: LI
LIST 1 found

                  BLOCK REFERENCE  Layer: "WIREFIXED"
                            Space: Model space
                   Handle = 10a4
       Block Name: "VAN1B"
   Anonymous Name: "*U30"
                at point, X= 287.5336  Y= 444.1228  Z=   0.0000
   X scale factor:    1.0000
   Y scale factor:    1.0000
   rotation angle:      0
   Z scale factor:    1.0000
  Scale uniformly: No
  Allow exploding: Yes
      Visibility1: Lightning Off

To make sure the rule "ALL block instances with the same name, must graphically look the same", AutoCAD gives this variant a new anonymous name. It's THIS anonymous name that gets reported back to AcadE as the block name, and THAT is what breaks the functionality, as AcadE is really dependent on the "intelligent" block names in its code.

So, avoid using dynamic blocks for "intelligent" symbols in AcadE, but feel free to use it for other "unintelligent" symbols in your schematics.

[rhesusminus]

I would not recommend putting the various pin numbers into the symbol. This should rather be put into the catalog data for the different variants of the part.
Any reason you can't do it that way?

[jseefdrumr]

FINALLY!!!! an explanation lol

Thanks for weighing in Trond. I'm glad to know exactly what it is that keeps dynamic blocks from working. All this time, I thought it changed the handle, and I never even knew about the 'anonymous name' thing.

Great examples too. Thanks!

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

Ref. @ Dynamic block  - rhesusminus made things clear that why Dynamic features don't work in AECAD. And you won't be able to update the block either (if needed) once the dynamic feature is activated as the block name changes to UXX.  However, I still prefer to use (been using several years) the dynamic features such as resizing the LRU size (not the electrical intelligence / features). If I have to update the block, I update the block before activating the dynamic features (in my case resizing the LRU size). Then I change the LRU size. This saves a lot of drafting time and still be able to access the database to define the LRU part numbers, XREF, LOC, etc. 

Ref @ pin numbers -Yes, it is good idea to define pin numbers in the catalog data.  This works very well in switches (PB, SPDT, SPST, parent and childs). In case of Vivisun Annunciator switches which have alphabetic and alphanumeric pin numbers, 4 indicators and upto 4 SPDT mix and match switches in one block, I prefer to define the pin numbers in the symbol rather than in the catalog data. 

I would say it depends on user, type of the project, and company working procedures / standards etc.