Fuse and fuse-holder

[DWhiteley]

I wish to add a fuseholder and a fuse to a schematic.

The fuse holder is easy, but how would i add a fuse of a particular rating to this (a bit like a sub-assembly or parent/child I suppose)?

Both parts would have to come up in the BOM.

Thanks,

Dave W

[testsubject]

What a lot of us do is reference the Fuse in the schematic and make the fuse holder the sub-assembly or Multiple Catalog part. By picking the Fuse instead of the fuseholder for your primary catalog number you will be able to display the fuse rating on the schematic in the RATING1 attribute.

In the Panel side of things, I go into the footprint_lookup.mdb database and reference the fuse holder for the different fuse sizes.

For example, in the Bussmann table, for all MDL-# fuses I have the footprint set to a Wago Fuseholder dwg (WAGO/TRMS-TERMINAL BLOCKS/2006-1631)

I modified the footprint so that RATING1 will appear on the panel drawing at a specific spot on the fuseholder.

So, when I go to insert the fuse, the fuseholder appears on the panel.

They will both appear on the BOM (Schematic or Panel).

[DWhiteley]

Many thanks for the quick response Bob,

As i'm only working on schematics, I assume from your reply that I add the fuse first and connect wires to that and add the fuse holder as a separate component over the top of the fuse??

Is that correct?

Dave W

[testsubject · Accepted solution]

Actually, no.

The Schematic symbol does not change. It still only looks like a fuse and you only enter one symbol. 

What you would do is insert the fuse in your schematic and the when filling out theMFG/CAT information, you would also select the Fuse Holder by clicking on "Multiple Catalog" and adding it as the first multiple part.

As you can see in the image, I first selected that Fuse's MFG/CAT number (Either by selecting it from the database or you can manually enter int in) and then I selected Multiple Catalog to briung up the smaller dialog box. In this one I fill in the Fuse Holder information (again, either manually or by DB). Then select Okay twice to accept the changes.

Now when I run the BOM for this page, I will get a fuse as the Primary part with the Fuse Holder as a sub-assembly.

As you can see in the image, The Rating of the fuse is listed both in the Dialog Box and on the symbol. This is how you get that info automatically.

I hope this makes it clearer.

[cbenner]

Bob,

This was great info, thanks!  Once this link is established, does it always come in as a sub-assembly?  Or do I have to do this with each fuse (as an example)?

[testsubject]

Chris,

Unfortunately, no. Doing it this way is a onetime only setup.

You can make it stick though by using the TEXTVALUE field in the database.

This does require editing the symbol and adding the extra attribute values (MFGXX and CATXX) for each extra item you want to be part of the assembly. MFG01 and CAT01 correspond the first Multi-BOM part, MFG02, CAT02 to the second, etc. all the way up to 99.

For the example I showed, I set the TEXTVALUE of MDL-1 to MFG01=WAGO;CAT01=2006-1631.

Now, when I select MDL-1 from the catalog database, the Multiple BOM parts are automatically filled in. This information also passes through to the Panel parts but you need to add the attributes to them also for this to work.

I go even one step further with my customized menu and create symbols with all the catalog info pre-filled in so all I have to do is insert the appropriate symbol (i.e., 1 Amp, 2 Amp, 3 Amp) and the data is already there.

I hope this helps.

[cbenner]

That does help, thank you!

[Anonymous]

What if you place the fuse holder first and then add the fuse to it.

Is it possible to get the Fuse Rating to automatically populate into the RATING1?

I tried to do the TEXTVALUE on the fuse to be RATING1=xA, it doesn't populate the RATING1 automatically?

NO RATING1 called out on the Fuse Holder, I am using RATING2 and RATING3 for info though.

Any ideas?

[Icemanau]

There is also the option of using the Assemblycode and Assemblylist values in the catalogue entry for the fuse.

NOTE - These have had their names changed in the 2017 release but I don't have that with me at the moment to check the new names.

You place a code in the Assemblycode area of the fuse and then place the EXACT SAME code in the Assemblylist area of the fuse holder.

From that point on, anytime you select this fuse, it will automatically add the linked fuse holder.

You can even use the same code in the Assemblycode area of other fuses to pull in the same holder.

If you were to do the link the other way with the Assemblycode in the fuseholder, you would need multiple entries for the fuseholder to account for different fuse values.

You can also set the Textvalue while editing the fuse entry. Just place RATING1=??A in the textvalue entry (if it's not already in place) and the rating will be pushed out to the RATING1 attribute of the block being placed/edited in the schematic.

Modifying the entry this way will cause the

Regards Brad

[Anonymous]

Someone decided to use the "Assembly Code" for our 9 digit part number so that wouldn't be a practical solution for us.

Most people that don't know how to trick the system put down the Fuse Holder first, then they add a Fuse as a Multiple Catalog Item and then they have to update the RATING1 manually every time the load it or modify it.

I was wondering if someone had a solution with that workflow that would automatically put the Fuse RATING1 into the symbol it is made part of as a multiple catalog item? Some way for the Fuse Block Symbol to pick the RATING1 from a Multiple Catalog Item.

Part of the reason I am trying to figure it out this way is so that I can make custom 2 Pole and 3 Pole Fuse holders that would also populate there RATING1's automatically. If there isn't a way there should be.

Thanks Brad! It looks like your message got cut off?

Mike

[Icemanau]

So I noticed...

I was saying that modifying the entries that way only requires the one edit, after that it would all be automatic.

The Assemblycode value being used for your companies part numbers will cause the lookup to be slower than it should be.

What happens is that ACADE will detect the value and then search the entire table for a matching entry in the Assemblylist entry.

What needs to be done is all those part numbers to be moved to the three User entries. This will speed up the catalogue lookup as ACADE is no longer doing a search for those Assemblylist values on every component you lookup.

The other thing is that the Assemblycode and Assemblylist values are not available in reports whereas the USER? values can be.

This means that if you want a BOM to show your part number, you will have to either enter it manually each time or move it to a section that does show in reports like the USER# entries.

As for the fuse holder picking up the RATING1=??A Textvalue entry in the fuse and forcing that into the schematic block, I don't think that can be done.

At least, I've never heard of it being done. The only way for it to work is to have the textvalue entry in the fuse holder. this would then require multiple entries for the different fuse holders/fuse combinations and would almost double the size of that fuse table.

It's better to assign the fuse to the schematic component as multiple fuses can call the same fuse holder with no problems and only one entry for each type of fuse holder.

Regards Brad

[Anonymous]

Thank You!

[james_moore]

although this topic is old, I'd like to add, this is how I train users to do fuse & fuseblocks, & why.

#1, handling multiple-pole fuse blocks, how do you identify the components?  We identify and tag the fuse block, not the individual fuses.  When we insert fuses on our drawings, we're often showing (3) fuses in a fuse block, so if we use the fuse block in the ASSYCODE field, we'll get too many.  Therefore, we have standardized on making a fuse block entry in the data base for every fuse combination, and use the fuse cat# in the ASSYCODE field.  Each multi-pole block gets the same fuse size for each pole; it doesn't make sense to identify each fuse.

#2 It is possible to use MFG01, CAT01, etc., sequentially, to access the data in multiple catalog items.  In your database records, you can use TAG=VALUE pairs to force values into attributes too... such as RATING2, RATING3 etc., can carry the amp rating for the fuse, while the RATING1 value would typically get data that applies to the fuse holder.

The one drawback I've found to doing it this way is training users to enter the fuse part in the Assembly field in the edit dialog to most efficiently locate the item to select from the database.  The search will zero in on the fuse cat# even though it's being used as the ASSYCODE and not the CAT in this case.

[testsubject]

James,

Although what you mentioned does work, as I have mentioned in other posts, using AssemblyCodes removes the ability to have each part have a unique Item number. All parts of the assembly will carry the same Item number. As long as you are okay that fine. I discovered this after I originally replied to this post and now no longer use AssemblyCodes for this reason.

[james_moore]

Ah, yes I see your point.  We do not use item numbers in our configuration, so that has not been a problem here.

In our system, we would see the fuse assembly as one item.  All multi-catalog items are also seen as one item, are they not?  Lots of ways to customize ACE for what your needs or desires are.  Some would say TOO many.  I've only worked in a few companies in the past 30 years, and I can't say even one of them was prepared to deal with using ACE right out of the box, and one place that customization starts is little questions like this - how to make it work the way we want it to, and getting everyone to agree on what the standards are going to look like. 😉

[testsubject]

Multi-catalog items are allowed to have unique item numbers. That is what I now use.

You are right about having too many options though....

Getting everyone to agree is like herding cats sometimes.

[rhesusminus]

Me: 😉

[muckmailer]

How do I get the secondary component catalog number to show up in in my symbol.

For example if I wanted to have 2006-1631 to be shown when I insert the symbol.

Thank you,

[james_moore]

You can reference Multiple Catalog item details by adding attributes. Your main part is CAT, subsequent parts are CAT01, CAT02, CAT03 etc.. Same with the other attributes, add sequential numbering to the end of the attribute tag name.
We also use RATING1 through whatever number to add details such as a fuse size. The values can then be added to the database in the TEXTVALUE field, so when you select the part the values are applied to the attributes.... RATING1=2A;RATING2=600V for example may be in the TEXTVALUE field... so you separate attribute tag=value by ";" to apply multiple values to multiple attributes. Be aware there is a character limitation in the database fields though, you can only apply so much. Hope this helps!

[testsubject]

One caveat to what James said: you cannot display the rating values of multi-catalog components.

For example, there is not a RATING011 attribute (the theoretical RATING1 value of the CAT01 component.)