electrical wiring diagram view type?

[AVieira12]

I am looking for examples or names of a type of view that shows a device as if you are looking at it when it it mounted... 

The device I am trying to draw is mounted in a bracket which is then mounted inside a cabinet 9 times. We need to show how it is mounted but also the device terminals. My problem is that when it is mounted, the terminals are on the back, facing the inside of the cabinet and a plate with a label is on the front. I was working with our standard rear view when I realized the terminals would be technically "mirrored" since when mounted we basically need to show it as if we ar seeing through the front of device...

I am horrible at explaining things and my coworkers don't seem to understand my issue. Is this a type of standard diagram that is known? Or would I just be better off leaving a note that states the device mounts the other way and terminals are swapped?

I don't want the diagram to show +/- terminals mixed up and have it installed incorrectly. We are also required to use specific colored wires and if they are shown to the wrong terminals we could be in a lot of trouble. 

[TRLitsey]

Hi there,

You might take a look at the WIPEOUT tool and the DRAWING ORDER tool in the Help section.  The Wipeout tool for example can be used to fill a rectangle, like the frame/footprint of a breaker or relay.  Functionally it hides whatever is behind it.  So with the outline of a relay, filled with the Wipeout tool, when it is placed on a panel layout it will hide or mask the section of din rail it is mounted over.  Which brings us to the Drawing Order tool.  If you want to add terminals to the relay you can lay them right on top if it.  Now, still thinking in 2D, you have layers like sheets of glass.  You have terminals, the outline of the relay with the Wipeout feature and din rail.  Playing with the Drawing Order tools you can shift the graphics to be hidden behind/below something or visible above/in-front of other graphics.  Very cool tool for panel layout foot prints.

Good luck

[Icemanau]

The device you are describing sounds like a panel/door mounted device.

You are trying to do several views of the one device within the one block.

I have two solutions that I use depending on the drawing required.

Solution 1 is to just show the front door view with no information on the terminal layout.

Solution 2 is to do a REAR view of the device with the terminals shown.

I normally use the first solution and don't provide the electricians with the terminal layout as they are quite able to read the relay terminal markings to find the correct terminal. The only time I provide the Rear view is if the client wants a Wiring Diagram along with a schematic dwg.

You may have to do the front view without tying to footprints to the schematic to allow the rear view to be linked and any wiring information to be shown.

Check the website of the device's manufacturer as they may provide CAD dwgs of both the front and rear of the device. Most of the manufacturers of the devices I use do so.

Regards Brad

[AVieira12]

Thank you for your response...

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@Icemanau wrote:

The device you are describing sounds like a panel/door mounted device.

You are trying to do several views of the one device within the one block.

I have two solutions that I use depending on the drawing required.

Solution 1 is to just show the front door view with no information on the terminal layout.

Solution 2 is to do a REAR view of the device with the terminals shown.

I normally use the first solution and don't provide the electricians with the terminal layout as they are quite able to read the relay terminal markings to find the correct terminal. The only time I provide the Rear view is if the client wants a Wiring Diagram along with a schematic dwg.

You may have to do the front view without tying to footprints to the schematic to allow the rear view to be linked and any wiring information to be shown.

Check the website of the device's manufacturer as they may provide CAD dwgs of both the front and rear of the device. Most of the manufacturers of the devices I use do so.

Regards Brad

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Thanks for your responses... The device is actually a monitor module mounting in a module cabinet. We are the manufacturer and the CAD we have shows only the rear view which works for diagrams where it does not need to be shown in the bracket. In the attached image, I have drawn up a very generic layout of what I am talking about. Not only do I need to show how the module mounts within the bracket and cabinet, but also how the device is tied into what it is specifically monitoring... Since the module mounts in the bracket in the panel with the label facing out (the "FRONT"), our terminal/rear view is not an accurate representation of how the wires will be terminated. Does that make sense?? I am worried I am making a mountain out of a mole hill but I am 99% sure our customer will have a fit if they see something is off (even though they will KNOW how to wire it correctly, regardless if the diagram is wrong)

EDIT: I should reiterate that what I am looking for is any other examples of this type of view if there is one, or if there is a technical term for this specific view - I don't really want to note that the view is "SEE-THROUGH" 😞 

[Icemanau]

Ahh, thanks for clarifying that.

The correct term you are looking for is elevation.

The current standard is to draw an elevation for each required view.

This equates to (normally) Front, Top, Rear & Side. Sometimes a Bottom and the opposite Side are included depending on how complex the shape of the item is. These are the standard views for almost everything with the addition of an X-Ray and Exploded views for those items requiring internal or construction details.

Another option you could look at is a 3D version of the file which can be rotated by your client. ACADE still contains all the original ACAD functions including 3D rendering and such if you don't have Inventor. This view would be able to show everything correctly.

Regards Brad

[jseefdrumr · Accepted solution]

There's no real name for it, but traditionally, any time you have to depict some object that is behind the object you're drawing, you draw it in dashed lines. These are known as 'hidden' objects, and there is even a linetype specifically for them. Surprisingly, it is named 'HIDDEN'.

I like Brad's answer, and it's the approach I would take because it fits in with how we do things.

However, it sounds like you're trying to show everything from a single view and can't make use of a standard elevation drawing, which would be separate from your panel drawing. I have two ideas for you.

First idea: utilize the standard elevation views, and put them in a separate drawing. In the panel drawing, you'd have a note to the effect of "SEE DRAWING XX FOR WIRING DETAILS", or "REF DETAIL XX". This piece of annotation is a pretty standard method for indicating that there is more information elsewhere for that device. Then, in that other drawing, you'd have your front, rear, and side elevations.

Second idea: if it absolutely MUST be done on one drawing, consider using the 'HIDDEN' linetype. Referring to your images, here's what I would do:
*keep the version all the way to the right, kill the other two
*make all those blue lines = HIDDEN. You may need to make adjustments to your linetype scaling to get them to plot right - the scaling exists as an object property but also as system variables (LTSCALE in modelspace and PSLTSCALE in paperspace)
*move the annotation that is currently in the middle of the block (device label/part no./address) down under the bottom where it says 'see-through view' (delete that note)
*leave the terminal numbers where they are, as this is their actual position when viewing from the front
*for absolute clarity, I would still include a note stating that "TERMINALS SHOWN IN ACTUAL POSITION AS VIEWED FROM FRONT"

Hope this helps,

[AVieira12]

Thank you Brad & Jim! We do have typical details included with our construction set that includes an exploded view as well as a front/rear view. I like youridea of showing it as hidden with this note:

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@jseefdrumr wrote:
*leave the terminal numbers where they are, as this is their actual position when viewing from the front
*for absolute clarity, I would still include a note stating that "TERMINALS SHOWN IN ACTUAL POSITION AS VIEWED FROM FRONT"

Hope this helps,

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I think this is the route I will go, and still reference our typical detail of the device that is already included. Thanks very much, you two!

Would the term X-Ray view not fit here? I "googled" it and of course all I got was medical xrays - I was thinking cross section as well but that wont fit either... anyway it's probably not important as long as I include the aforementioned note. 

I wish we had the ability to use 3D versions, our industry and the industries we work with are mostly working with Revit and while I love AutoCAD, I don't want us to get left behind. Thanks again!

[jseefdrumr]

X-ray isn't a view name, in the traditional sense. And you're right, this isn't a cross section. There's really no name for this sort of view, but don't sweat it because this is really very common. Using dashed lines to depict hidden objects goes pretty far back in the field of drafting.

I think the closest we could get, technically, is to call it a front elevation or front view. The dashed lines *should* inform any one looking at the drawing that there is something behind it (or on its rear).