Custom Tags - Property Set Updating

[Anonymous]

I'm using custom tags that read a couple property set definitions from hatch patterns(Name and Area).  I have the drawing with the hatch patterns referenced into a separate file where I add the tags.  When the tag is originally attached all works fine.  However, if I change the value of the Name in the property set definition the changes do not update.  If a change to the area occurs the update occurs automatically when the file is reloaded.   If I add another tag to the same hatch pattern the new values are read correctly.

(UPDATE)

I continued toying with this and I noticed something unusual. In the host file that contains the reference file, if the tag is selected the property set values of the hatch are displayed from the original file.  However the lines for Level and Name are not shaded so I am able to edit them in the host file.  Not something I want to do unless the changes will go back to the referenced file.  This does not appear to happen.  But now updates from the original do not come through either. 

I am unsure how I "turned on" this feature because when I recreated the host file from scratch.  The Property Sets from Referenced Objects are all shaded and uneditable.  Is there someway to turn this off and reset the drawing to automatically update from the reference file?

I tried copying an example to a small file that I could post but then the updates work fine for both the name and area. 

Is there a drawing system variable that controls the updating of property set definitions?

Thanks.

[David_W_Koch · Accepted solution]

It appears that your Name and Level properties are manual properties.  Since you are tagging Hatch objects (which are AutoCAD objects), the Property Set must be object-based.  I also am assuming that you are not working within the Project Browser/Project Navigator environment, as tagging through external references works somewhat differently (actually, better) there.

Outside of the Project Browser/Project Navigator environment, when tagging an object "through" an external reference, ACA will default to placing a property data override in the host file.  Initially, the properties in the override will be populated with data from the external file.  Automatic properties might stay in sync (not sure, have not tried this in a long time), but manual properties will definitely not stay in sync.  You can choose the location from where the property data will be pulled (if you tag one object at a time) at the time of tag placement, if you have not chosen to suppress the display of the Edit Property Set Data dialog.  You should see a Data source property at the top - if you use this to choose the externally referenced file, rather than the host file, then no override will be created in the host file, and changes to the base drawing should be reflected in a tag when the external reference is reloaded.

If there is an override, you will be able to edit the manual properties on the Properties palette in the host file, but these changes will not show up in the externally referenced file.  If there is no override, then manual the properties will be grayed out on the Properties palette.

After the fact, you can select the tag.  If an override is in place, on the Properties palette, on the Extended Data tab, you can select the Remove Property Sets tool in the lower left corner and remove the property override(s).  If an override is not in place, on the Properties palette, on the Extended Data tab, you can select the Edit referenced property set data tool, which is located on the right side of the PROPERTY SETS FROM REFERENCED OBJECTS header, and then choose the Add Property Sets tool in the lower left corner of the Edit Property Set Data dialog.

You can also manage property data overrides using the PROPERTYDATAEXT and PROPERTYDATABROWSE commands.  PROPERTYDATAEXT allows you to select an object (you can select the object nested in the external reference directly, if you like - if you do, you will be prompted to choose between the nested object(s) and the external reference) and then examine/edit the property data in the host and in the external reference file for that object.  PROPERTYDATABROWSE allows you to choose a Property Set Definition and then review the objects to which it is attached, adding or removing overrides in the host file (left column of toggles) and, where overrides are added, editing manual property values on the overrides.  If you want to verify that no overrides are set, or want to quickly remove all of them, PROPERTYDATABROWSE is the command to use.

When using Project Browser/Project Navigator, ACA "knows" that properties should live at the Construct level, and will not place overrides in the View files, but will place overrides at the Construct level when tagging an object that is part of an Element that has been externally referenced in a Construct.

[Anonymous]

As always, thanks for coming to the rescue.

Yes, I am not using the Project Browser/Navigator enviroment. I've not really spent much time with it as it seemed to be only useful if doing a full blown project with ACA.  Perhaps there is a use for my little project measuring hatch areas and I can find the time to spend studying how it works.

I see how ACA assigns the property set definitions from the referenced file to the MVblocks in the host file.  Thanks for the tip on how to remove the overrides.  The PROPERTYDATABROWSE command works fine, but it seems easier just to select all MVBlocks and remove the property set definition in the Properties Palette. 

I am inserting tags with leaders so I am doing them one at a time.  I would like to supress the PSD override in the host file if possible.  Is there a variable/setting by which I can do that?  If not, doing the removal with Property Palette works fine until I can master the Project Browser/Navigator enviroment.

Thanks again.

[David_W_Koch]

I am not aware of any setting that would make the default action on tagging to use the data from the object in the external reference (no override in host file).

[Anonymous]

Now that I understand how the TAGS work to extract the data from the host file I thought it would be a good idea to create a schedule of the TAGS that I have made in the reference file.

While creating the SCHEDULE I selected MVBlocks in the Applies To... tab but when I go to create the columns I am not able to select the PSDs, in fact nothing shows up.  I then tried to add property sets using your advice on the PROPERTY SETS FROM REFERENCED OBJECTS header.  But this still does not work.

Is it possible to create a schedule that extracts the PSDs from the TAGS?  My preference would still be that the definitions read from the construct file, but I could temporarily add the PSDs, create the schedule and then remove them.

[David_W_Koch]

Schedule Tags provide a way of creating a "report" of selected property data that is attached to the object to which they are anchored.  Schedule Tables are another way to create a report of property data, this time on the objects that are part of the selection set of the Schedule Table (which is limited to the object types to which the Schedule Table applies, as further filtered by any Classification(s) indicated on the Applies To tab of the Schedule Table Style and any layer filter applied to the Schedule Table instance.

While the Properties palette will show the property data associated with a tagged object when you select the tag, that property data lives on the object, not the tag, and scheduling the tag will not make that data available.  If you really want to do that, you would have to create a Property Set Definition that applies to Multi-View Blocks and populate it with a number of Anchor proeprties, one for each property from the object being tagged that you want to be able to schedule.

I also ran into an issue with trying to apply such a Property Set to a Schedule Tag instance.  Selecting the tags and choosing the Add Properties button on the Extended Data tab only allows you to add properties to the tagged object, not the tag itself.  I made a tag tool and set its type to "Property set data", rather than tag.  Once that was done, I could add the Property Set with the Anchor properties to the Schedule Tags, and then set up a Schedule Table Style to schedule the Multi-View Block tags, showing property values from the tagged objects, as passed through the Anchor properties.  I have not yet tried this when tagging through an external reference to see if that makes any difference (or whether removing a property data override in the host file makes any difference.

Is there a purpose to this scheduling of the tags?  It seems like a lot of work, that a schedule table that applies to the tagged objects could achieve without that work.

[David_W_Koch]

I played around with this a little more.  It is difficult working with Property Sets attached to Schedule Tags, since the system is set up to only show the Property Sets on the objects being tagged when you select a Schedule Tag.  In a very limited test, the results I got suggest that the Anchor properties previously added to Schedule Tags in the same file as the tagged object also work when tagging through an external reference.  I also found that the Anchor properties appear to pull from the "model" drawing, even when a property data override exists in the "sheet" (external reference and schedule tag host) drawing.

I have not tried a nested external reference in the model drawing (equivalent to an element file in the Project Navigator environment), to see if the Anchor property goes all the way to the tagged object, or if it would use a property data override in the main externally referenced file.  I was not expecting it to ignore a property data override in the host file, so my guess would be that it would go all the way to the object in the nested file.

[Anonymous]

Sorry I did not respond earlier. I was in the process of buying a new home and unfortunately was out bid by 50K.

Thanks for your research and comments.  Based upon your observations I probably won't attempt to create a schedule based upon the tags.  The reason I thought it might be useful is because I am creating reference files that show subsets of the hatches I'm creating and there are tags identifying each hatch that is displayed.  I thought it might be nice to have a schedule that summarizes the tags on the sheet sorted by category.
In the past I have not found it possible to create a schedule of objects in a referenced file in the host file.  After entering the SCHEDULEADD command the prompt asks to "Select objects or Enter to schedule external drawing:"  Hitting Enter does nothing but create a empty schedule.

Is there something else one needs to do to select referenced objects for a schedule?  Do I need to create a new Schedule Style?  What object should it "Apply to:"?  Can it be prevented from selecting objects that are on layers that are frozen from the referenced file? 

Tom

[David_W_Koch · Accepted solution]

After starting the ScheduleAdd command, take a look at the Properties palette, on the Design tab, under the Basic category and Selection subcategory for the Scan xrefs property.  Set this to Yes and make certain that the Layer wildcard property will not exclude your external references.

If you are starting the ScheduleAdd command from a Tool palette tool, you can preset the Scan xrefs value, if you want.

[Anonymous]

Thanks David- That was the missing piece of information I needed. The prompt is still misleading as you don't want to hit "Enter to schedule external drawing:" rather one selects the reference file to draw the schedule from.

After selecting the xref and creating the schedule one can filter the layers to get the desired entities to appear on the schedule.  This will help me create sub schedules pretty easily with a bit of layer refinement.

[David_W_Koch · Accepted solution]

The Enter to schedule external drawing part of the prompt is not referring to selecting an external reference in the current drawing, but to another option for selecting objects to schedule.  You can specify an "external drawing" that is NOT externally referenced in your file as the source for the objects in the schedule.  This can be handy in a sheet file, in that you can place the Schedule Table directly in a Layout/Paper Space, without the need to add external references to the sheet file.

To use that option, you press ENTER instead of selecting objects, and then place the Schedule Table as usual (upper right point and ENTER to allow ACA to use the current drawing scale, or upper right point and lower left point to specify the overall size and have the Schedule Table scale to fit in between).  You will just get the schedule headers initially.  Select the Schedule Table and, on the Properties palette, on the Design tab, under the Advanced category, under the External Source subcategory, set the Schedule external drawing property to Yes.  Doing so will add the External drawing property.  Select the dropdown list in the right column next to this property and then choose the Browse option on the list and navigate to the file you wish to use as the source file.  (If the objects to be scheduled in that file are inside external references, you will also need to set Scan xrefs to Yes.)

[Anonymous]

Every time I want to tag a room, door, window, I get the message: THE DRAWING SPECIFIED FOR THE TOOLS PROPERTY SET DEFINITION IS MISSING.

OK

A STYLE DEFINITION COULD NOT BE LOCATED FOR THIS TOOL.

PLEASE CHECK THE TOOL SETTINGS FOR THE FOLLOWING POSSIBLE CAUSES:

-LOCATION DRAWING IS NOT AVAILABLE ????????

-STYLE OR DEFINITION DOES NOT EXIST IN CURRENT DRAWING (?????????)

I'm not using X-REFS.

Shouldn't it be a simple command? 

[Anonymous]

Too confusing. Does not help.
How can I make a simple command work simply?

[Anonymous]

What if you are not using x-refs?

[David_W_Koch]

Are you using out-of-the-box tools, or custom tools (created by you or your firm)?  Have you made any changes to the location of the content files that come with the program, after the initial installation?

The error messages you report suggest that the source files from which the tools you are trying to use pull the content they need when not present in the target file are no longer present on your system.  This could happen for out-of-the-box files if the source files were moved or deleted after the installation.  For custom tools, this could happen if the source files used to create the tools were moved/deleted, or were on a local hard drive of another machine or some other location that cannot be accessed from your computer.