Can't position Dorr And Window near the end of the Wall made by the Cleanup

Can't position Dorr And Window near the end of the Wall made by the Cleanup

alexKoshman
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Message 1 of 19

Can't position Dorr And Window near the end of the Wall made by the Cleanup

alexKoshman
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Hello to everybody here!

 

My question is simple: why I can't position Door And Window near the End of the Wall made by the Cleanup option?

Maximum I reached is positionnsing Window or Door at the real End of Wall with an Ancor.

But there is still a gap between Door (Window) and the intersection of Walls made by Cleanup!!

 

Your help will be much appreciated!..

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Message 2 of 19

David_W_Koch
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Does your Wall Style have an opening endcap assigned to Doors and/or Windows?  Does the endcap assigned to the jamb condition include the wrapping of any of the components, such as an exterior brick return?  If so, you need to allow enough room for that return to take place.  If you want the opening tight to the intersecting Wall, you will have to override the opening endcap with one that does not have wrapping components.


David Koch
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Message 3 of 19

alexKoshman
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Hi David! 1. No! 2. No! I even know anything about wrapping components! ; )) If I make a New file form a very standard AA template, then take "Standard" Walls from Palette and connect them with Cleanup and then try to set the "Standard" Door (or Window) near the T-joint of Walls - ... I can't do that!!
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Message 4 of 19

David_W_Koch
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Works for me (ACA 2016, 2015, 2014) - see attached image file.

 

Are you saying that you cannot position the Door like that initially, or that you cannot move the Door into that position?  If the former, what option do you have set on the Properties palette, Design tab, Basic category, Location sub-category, for the Position along wall property?  If it is set to Offset/Center, then you need to adjust the Automatic offset property value to get it where you want on first placement.  If you measure to the inside of frame, then set the value to the width of your Door's frame.  If you measure to the outside of frame, set the value to 0.

 

If you are unable to position the Door like that after placement, please reply back and attach a sample file where that does not work for you.


David Koch
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Message 5 of 19

alexKoshman
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Hi David! 1. I start a new DWG from "AEC Model (Global CTB).dwt" template. 2. THen draw two "Standard" Style Walls with a gap between them. 3. And then draw a "Standard" Style Window with "Position along wall" option set to "Unconstrained" (by default). And that stupid damned Window doesn't like to get the corner (unlike in your picture)!!! : (( Even more than that!! Today (maybe just for you?) it draws a big hole between Window and the corner at all the length of cleanup space... What I do wrong??
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Message 6 of 19

David_W_Koch
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You mention "Gap".  Before you place the Window, do the Walls not intersect and cleanup with each other?  The Window is expecting to be hosted by one of the Walls, and if there is no Wall near the "corner", then the Window will not go there.

 

Take a look at this Screencast, which shows that a Window can be placed at the intersection of two Walls (Standard Style, with no opening endcaps that would require some offset to resolve).  Notice that the two Walls do intersect at the corner; there is no gap.

 


David Koch
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Message 7 of 19

alexKoshman
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Hmmm... There's NO real "gap" at the corner. I means "the space that was made by Cleanup".
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Message 8 of 19

alexKoshman
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Sorry... I see I didn't put the attachment... : ((

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Message 9 of 19

David_W_Koch
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OK, I now see what the issue is.  But I have to ask, why are you trying to cleanup two perpendicular Walls, where the end of one Wall is nearly 3 meters from the other, by setting a cleanup radius of 3067 mm on the end of the first Wall?  Why not simply extend the first Wall to the second Wall; you will then get cleanup with a cleanup radius of zero, and the Window will go wherever you want.

 

A non-zero cleanup radius should be used as a last resort, generally in situations where multiple Walls come together in close proximity, but the justification lines do not all meet in one point.  Even then, the radius should be kept to the minimum size that makes the cleanup work.  A cleanup radius of more than 3 meters is an invitation to all sorts of unwanted things.  Your example file only has the two Walls, but on most real projects, a 3-meter cleanup radius is going to grab more than just the Wall with which you want cleanup to occur, causing more cleanup errors that you will care to have.


David Koch
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Message 10 of 19

alexKoshman
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Hi David!

 

This is just simple example of my problem.
In fact there's a component of the Wall in the bottom ot these two Walls an because of it I just can't extend Walls one to another "in normal way".

If i could I've never bother you with my problems!
: ((

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Message 11 of 19

David_W_Koch
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Can you explain more about this "bottom component" that is preventing normal cleanup?  (Or post a sample file with the Wall Style that is causing problems?)  Perhaps there is another way of dealing with it that would allow openings to be placed in your Walls as desired.


David Koch
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Message 12 of 19

alexKoshman
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Thank you David for you feeling my pain!.. ; ))

 

Now I show what I want to.

Sorry I thought the specifics Walls doesn't metter.

 

I just really hate to separate the bottom component to the another particular Wall Style and Object!..

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Message 13 of 19

alexKoshman
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"And I think to myself...

What a wonderful world..."

 

I found some solution by myself just now tonight, because it's early night around here ; )) !

 

1. Select that silly Door!

2. In its shortcut menu select "Anchor to Wall" -> "Release";

3. Add that damned Door (or Window) to that Wall as an Interference ("Subtract" mode)!

 

And I still don't think it IS really that I wanted to.

Releasing Door from its Wall ISN'T really good idea.

I don't like this solution - but it works...

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Message 14 of 19

alexKoshman
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1. Select that silly Door!

2. In its shortcut menu select "Anchor to Wall" -> "Release";

3. Add that damned Door (or Window) to that Wall as an Interference ("Subtract" mode)!

 

And one last thing I forgot:

 

4. Anchor the Door to Wall again! The "Interference-Subtract" will be added automatically!

 

After that you can move that damned Door along a Wall where you want! ; ))

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Message 15 of 19

alexKoshman
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And NO!

It isn't the solution at all - because if using the Walls with such a Door as an Xref - they do not cleanup correctly with perpendicular Walls from another Xref...

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Message 16 of 19

David_W_Koch
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OK, I see you have a multiple component Wall, with the components stacked vertically, and a sweep applied to the lowest component to create a shaped foundation for the Wall.  Is there a reason why you do not want the foundations from two Walls to cleanup with each other?  I would think the foundation would have to continue through to support the upper components all the way to the perpendicular Wall.  Then again, I am not a structural engineer.

 

I am not really certain why your foundations do not cleanup when the Walls do not touch, but a cleanup radius causes cleanup to occur, and yet the top components do cleanup.  It must have something to do with the sweep that is applied to the bottom component. because bottom components of two Walls of the same style but without the sweep will cleanup even when separated.  Even with the sweep applied, the foundations do cleanup as I would expect them to do when the Wall that is the "stem" of the "T" has its Justification line running up to the Justification line of the Wall that is the "top" of the "T".

 

In my test with the two Walls without the sweep, if keep the Walls separated but force cleanup, I still cannot put a Door beyond the "actual" the end of the Wall, into the cleanup zone.  Autodesk may argue that is "by design".  In my test with two Walls that do have the sweep applied, but whose Justification lines meet, I am able to put a door with the frame flush to the perpendicular Wall.  Which brings me back to ask why you do not want the foundations to cleanup.


David Koch
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Message 17 of 19

alexKoshman
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Hi David!

Thank you for your help!

 

Answer to your question: these foundations are made from separate precast foundation slabs and lie in my DWG exactly as they are in fact (see attached fotos for example).

Is AA was made for representing reality??  ; )

 

...And beause of that I see I must separate such constructions that HAVE TO cleanup with each other from such that DO NOT HAVE to cleanup.

 

I still really don't like this... I don't want to multiply the number of Styles and even Walls in the model.

 

But - now I think - it IS the only one solution... What a pity!

 

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Message 18 of 19

David_W_Koch
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Accepted solution

OK, precast foundations.  It took a while, but I finally got it.

 

Not sure this does exactly what you want, but it is as close as I can get while keeping the foundation as part of the upper Wall.  The Wall with the Door is extended to the perpendicular Wall and allowed to cleanup (with zero cleanup radius as an override).  If you thaw the layer I added, A-Area-Mass-Nplt, you will see the Mass Element that I placed and added to the Wall with the Door as an Interference object to remove the overlapping portion of the foundation component.  To get the plan graphics to show the foundation of the Wall with the Door to show below the Door, I had to modify the style-level display override on the Other tab, unchecking Hide Lines Below Openings at Cut Plane, which may have unwanted effects elsewhere.

 

I tried adding a Wall Style that did not have the foundation component to bridge the gap, but it was not big enough to hold the Door.  It might be possible to create a Wall Endcap that would hold the foundation back; not sure if the projecting part of such a Wall would be able to hold a Door, however.  I may try that later, just to see if it is possible, but it would definitely be more work that adding a Mass Element to subtract the unwanted bit of the foundation.

 

If you really wanted to, you could add interferences to model all of the gaps between the precast parts.  Or does concrete get poured in the field to fill in those gaps? 


David Koch
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Message 19 of 19

alexKoshman
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Hello, David!

I DEEPLY appreciate ypou for your help!

 

1. You are completely right!! Your first solution fron previous post is the best!!

I did the Interference and Body Modifiers a hundred of times, but I completely forgot about SUBTRACTING mode... : ((

This IS the solution!

 

2. I tried to Add a Body Modifier (in "Cut Openings" mode!!) (I like BM much more than Interferences) for the "mising part" of the Wall over the foundation slab and FAIL!

The situation is completely the same - we can't move the Door to the corner!..

 

3. Then I tried to add an Interference for the this "mising part" - and with NO luck!

The Walls even don't make a Cleanup - and WORSE - I can't even see (in Model) that part of the Wall!

In Plan it isn't combined with the Wall and have not its Plan Hatch...

 

So your first decision is the best:

 - intersect the Walls;

 and

 - do the "Interference" -> "Subtract mode" with adding the Mass Element for removig the overlapping part of the foundation slab!

 

THANK YOU VERY MUCH again!

 

The question for Moderators: can you correct the Theme of my post ("doRR") - for best finding it in future by thousands an thousands of grateful people?..

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