Autodesk software for Landscape Architects?!

[gvanderiet]

Autodesk has done a great job designing and offering products for the majority of design disciplines, but has seemingly left a major discipline out of the mix. 

Architects have AutoCAD Architecture and Revit.

Civil Engineers have Civil3D/Map3D.

But Landscape Architects are left to mesh multiple products together and none offers a complete solution.

Civil3D is geared predominantly towards civil engineers, especially roadway engineers. Sure, it offers some use for other design problems (trail alignment, grading; parking lot design, grading; lot platting; etc.). Map3D does offer some planning/analysis tools that otherwise we would use an ESRI product for. Revit could be used, but again, it is geared predominantly to Architects and BUILDING design and construction documentation.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about planting design, I'm talking about anything outside a building shell that is part of the built environment (take a look at www.asla.org; or a google search: https://goo.gl/HVr0Oh).

Sure, there are plugins/add-on software for us, but for the most part they are expensive, and poorly-designed and bug-ridden.

There are more than enough firms out there to justify a product offering for us. Heck, even SketchUp realizes that Landscape Architecture is a large part of their customer base.

When can we expect to see Autodesk recognoize our profession and offer a set of tools specifically designed for us? And not forced to use a variety of different software applications to complete our work?

[Jakub.Brozonowicz]

Hi

Thank you for an accurate diagnosis. It is very difficult but I will answer thus foretelling the future in the rapidly expanding portfolio.

There are many examples, and these can easily be found.
http://au.autodesk.com/au-online/classes-on-demand/class-catalog/2012/autocad-civil-3d/feeling-the-l...
Importing surface of Civil 3D, 3ds Max to whom you are not you mentioned also is some sort of solution which would not be possible within a single program.
Basically, the problem is the introduction of databases of plants rapidly changing due to the change of seasons what is actually much simpler programs have.

Nevertheless, still we rely on a strong belief that opportunities currently available programs and above all the ability to interact, they meet a very wide range of Landscape Architecture industry.

[rajeshree.dembla]

Hi Geoffrey,

Thank you for posting and being a part of the Answer Day.

I do sense your pain in trying to design using a mesh of products and tools. Unfortuantely, we do not have an ideal product that would fit your needs currently, but it would be good to try out this product based on top of AutoCAD - http://www.eaglepoint.com/landcadd/

Hope this helps!

Thanks,

Rajeshree Dembla

Autodesk,Inc.

[gvanderiet]

Thanks for the reply.

Though Civil View is availbale, that is mainly a visual tool for migrating Civil3D data to be viewed in 3DS Max and create renderings and animations.

Landscape architecture is more than planting design. Landscape architects are a jack-of-all-trades: we are site engineers, horticulturists, planners, environmentalists, and architects. Meaning:

-Site Engineers: we engineer a site, much like a civil engineer, though with an emphasis on molding the land with an aesthetic value and give our work a meaning beyond meeting a grade/slope percentage.

-Horticulturists: yes, we do specify plant material and create planting designs and would benefit from having easy access to a plant database (a la LandFX, but not nearly as buggy and without the expensive cost)

-Planners: Map3D does provide alot of the functionality for site analysis and planning, but it comes at the cost of another added layer of software and not the standard used by students in school.

-Environmentalists: the most recent add-ons for Civil3D (River Analysis), and the tools available in Infraworks offer tools for useful for wetland mitigation, stream restoration, and so on but by no means complete or available in one software application.

-Architects: by far the majority of our work is site design and documentation of our design for CD's in a typical AutoCAD environment. Unlike our Architect friends who have Revit which brings them into the BIM world for expediting documentation of design and design analsysis, we are stuck with using vanilla CAD. 

[gvanderiet]

Thanks for the reply.

I can appreciate the availability and usefulness of these add-ons (LandCADD, LandFX, etc.) but for the most part they are inferior to the core Autodesk product. We have LandFX in our office but as our office's CAD Manager I simply cannot back this as an acceptable solution. It contains many duplicate 'features' that are already available in vanilla AutoCAD, though they may not have a fancy button or be as easy to use, but those AutoCAD-integrated tools work! These extra add-ons create confusing and for the most part dont follow an easy-to-use UI or typical AutoCAD product UI. As well, its another layer of software to manage, train someone to use, and most improtantly, for us to pay for.

Autodesk should be able to integrate the necessary functionality for landscape architects and offer a product that people can trust and know it will work! Having multiple layers of tools and add-ons does not work well in a real-world office setting.

[Anonymous]

I've been using Lands Studio and am quite satisfied considering its price and features. They have an evaluation version, so it's risk-ree http://en.asunilands.com/

[mevans_stewart]

I'd like to second everything gvanderiet has said. Autodesk has overlooked Landscape Architecture as a profession either intentionally or out of ignorance. Many of the tools in Revit could be very helful, especially in an urban context where complex vertical and horizontal site features need to be designed, rendered and documented for construction (included, but not limited to plants). This breaks down when Revit needs to coordinate with real-world coordinates, complex and accurate topography, multiple types of hardscape with many different cross sections (sometimes on structure) with specific slopes and radii, soil cross sections of different types, sub-surface utilities, stormwater design, roadway / trail design, and 3D scans of existing buildings, ( I almost forgot the plants).

I work in a multi-disciplinary firm where we design all these things on a regular basis, but at great labor and at great loss of efficiency. Civil 3D grading tools are fine for generating rough TINs with no materials, but when it comes to actual 3D site design - no dice. This makes BIM for site virtually impossible. I currently have to work in Civil 3D (primarily), Revit (for coordination with arch), Sketchup for concept design and rendering, Infraworks for contextual visualization and coordination, and a custom CAD plugin for Civil 3D for planting design because the add-ons work very poorly within Civil 3D and are poorly supported.

Autodesk - this is pathetic plea to you - please fill in this gap! I would like to be able to go home at some point and see my family, but I have re-export architectural footprints and elevations and update all my 2D site drawings and then export to sketchup for to model and render. (The architects just have to change their graphic style settings by the way).

[pendean]

ASLA, your professional association, has recommendations but none are from Autodesk. If you want Autodesk software, your professional association and it's members need to push Autodesk to provide it. One or two or six posts in an unrelaed user forum is not going to do much sadly.
https://www.asla.org/software.aspx
and https://www.google.com/#q=cad+software+for+landscape+architecture

[mevans_stewart]

This seems to be a post more about discounted software, not recommended software, however Vectorworks is an interested alternative. Former Autodesk developers that have been able to put into one package a set of tools not yet seen in an Autodesk product. I can see why they would advocate for Autodesk - despite being the industry standard for architecture, structural and civil engineering, mep, and survey, they haven't engaged landscape. This soap box post is hardly the first, but merely an explosion of frustration after a useless AU webinar that completely missed the point.

I agree that this post is like shouting into the wind. Autodesk seems to be preoccupied with taking their current software solutions and repackaging it as new software (i.e. Autodesk Glue). If Autodesk could at least make Revit engage sloped surfaces better and more accurately (and easily) integrate with Civil 3D, they might actually offer something useful for site design and evolve beyond the basic antiquated framework of 2D CAD.

[pendean]

Your professional association is the best venue to ask Autodesk to do more for your industry.

[Anonymous]

Have you tried vectorworks landmark.

It has plant database/site model land models, to form terrain, is a 2d and 3d drawing program with builtin BIM. 

It's pretty good.

[Anonymous]

as a member of ASLA I was shocked to see no mention of Autodesk products on the ASLA website - though we are totally dependent on their software for our work.

If ASLA listed Autodesk products and identified how many of our membership actually use Revit, Civil3d and Maps would we get farther?

ASLA as an organization should be able to show those numbers so that Autodesk can see the potential sales opportunities and recognize that we arent using their software for planting design

We are designing the grading for the site, laying out roads, trails, parking lots, plazas, pedestrian areas, bioretention/raingardens, streetscapes - all are design elements that require data points from both civil3d and Revit - to connect the architectural to the site.  We are knitting together the building and the site - and having to use two behemoths of software. I often feel like its like using a battleship to deliver a glass of milk - and expecting it to not be curdled by the time you get there.

How about just some training packages or style templates that simplify?  How about a way to streamline the software to only use what we need? How about a way to pay that reflects our actual use?  How about some discounts through ASLA?

[pendean]

Take it up with ASLA my friend, the rest of us can only point you to the realities that exist and (other) software that cater to your industry specifically.

Good luck.

[john.vellek]

Hi @Anonymous,

I am surprised too that Autodesk doesn't have a bigger presence in your discipline. I will try to reach out internally to see who I can make the suggestion to. I am just a little guy in a big corporation but I will try!

You might also submit an Idea in the Ideas pages. Perhaps one in Revit and one in AutoCAD Civil 3D

[Anonymous]

Autodesk DOES have a BIG role in our WORK.  We couldn't do our work without the software.

The problem is that ASLA doesn't acknowledge that on the website for ASLA 

-and some seem to not recognize that we do spend most of our working hours in Autodesk products.

We've been using Autocad since ACAD9!

and yes we have to work in Civil3d AND Revit AND VehicleTracking in order to interface with the design teams we work with.

It would be great to reach out ASLA 

It would be great to have some C3d styles and template packages that slim down the program.

Thanks for your help

[john.vellek]

HI @Anonymous,  I didn't mean to imply that Autodesk products aren't being used but merely that it would be nice to provide more discipline specific features to improve the LSA workflow and design process.

I am already trying to find the correct means internally to make such as suggestion.

Thanks for your contribution.

[mevans_stewart]

John,

Thanks for taking a proactive approach. As a multidisciplinary firm, we deal with many of the interoperability issues inherent with Autodesk products. If Autodesk is looking for someone to give constructive feedback on their products, we would be happy to provide that. We currently use:

Civil 3D

Revit

Infraworks

Navisworks 

Most of the issues are between Civil 3D and Revit.

---

@john.vellek wrote:

HI @Anonymous,  I didn't mean to imply that Autodesk products aren't being used but merely that it would be nice to provide more discipline specific features to improve the LSA workflow and design process.

I am already trying to find the correct means internally to make such as suggestion.

Thanks for your contribution.

---

[Anonymous]

Hi John, I'm using Autocad again after 3 years on vectorworks landmark.  Last week I spent 40 hours add plant callouts.  This is something that is automated in Vectorworks and I wouldn't have to spend any time on.  Can you please look into adding a feature like this?  Thanks.

[john.vellek]

Hi @Anonymous,

Depending on the symbols /blocks used for the plants, you could add the callouts directly in the block.  Or if this is for scheduling, you could run a dataextraction and build a table to show each Qty, Size, Species, description, comments etc.  Can you share a file on a post or email to john.vellek@autodesk.com so I can take a look at your process?

Please select the Accept as Solution button if my post solves your issue or answers your question.

[john.vellek]

Hi @jjamesPX7AM,

Thanks for your correspondence offline.  I really found the video link useful in seeing some of the functionality that you are describing.  While Revit would be much better suited to creating Families that would work similar to the VectorWorks, I think you can still get a lot of this done in AutoCAD too.

I made a quick video that shows a custom Mleader that allows you to indicate from centerpoints of the plants to the tag.  You can also place the Mleader and move the label around the plant's trunk.  Lastly, I show the results of a dataextraction that can count all of your plant blocks and even combine similar ones into a single row.

I hope this gets somewhat closer to what you are describing.  Another method for the callout  could be to integrate it into a dynamic block and perhaps set a visibility control to either show or hide the label.

Let me know please, if any of this is of interest and I can share or help get you started on creating such features for your process.