PM for Structural Steel Introduction + Steel Detailing Roadmap

[piotr_pysz]

Hello Everyone!  

I would like to use the opportunity to introduce myself and drop some important notes and announcements. 

My name is Piotr Pysz and I recently joined Autodesk as a Product Manager for Steel Structures.  

I graduated as a Structural Engineer from Cracow University of Technology. For the first 4 years of my career, I worked in a small Structural Engineering office. Then I moved to a big Steel Detailing company based in the US where I spent the last 9 years. I went through all the steps starting as a draftsman editing shop and part drawings, then moved to the modeling and connecting department, became a checker after a few years, and finally a team leader responsible for the international team of Steel Detailers. 

During my Steel Detailing career, I had the opportunity to work on some major development projects like Mercedes Benz Stadium, Orange County Museum of Arts, or Norwegian Cruise Terminal. 

You can find me on LinkedIn if you want to connect!  

As you know In March last year, we announced that we are investing in BIM-centric steel detailing workflow in Revit with the intention to connect design and detailing. To accelerate this plan, we have decided to transition Advance Steel into Maintenance mode (blog post).  

We’ve promised to be transparent about our plans and to come back with an updated roadmap for Steel Detailing.  

I know that some of you have already seen the new version >> Revit – Structure Roadmap, however, I felt like communicating this directly here is the right thing to do. 

Some of you already gave us very constructive feedback – thank you very much for that!  
 
We have heard a lot of misconceptions about what’s going to happen next to Advance Steel due to the above investments in Revit. I wanted to address some of the main concerns here and give you more insights into the Development process. 

What does it mean that Advance Steel is in maintenance mode? 

It means that we are providing customer support for the product, porting it to the new versions of AutoCAD, fixing major bugs, and providing all the functionalities that it has today. It also means that we are not developing new features or functionalities for Advance Steel. 

What is the future of Advance Steel? 
We understand the critical role that Advance Steel plays in your workflow and business. Advance Steel continues to be available in our portfolio with its existing value bringing its specialization in Steel Detailing and Fabrication to the collection. 

What is the timeframe for developing Revit as a fully functional steel detailing software? 
Developing Revit as a fully functional steel detailing software is a multi-year endeavor. There are fundamental capabilities that any Steel Detailing software should possess, such as the automated creation of assemblies when you weld or bolt elements together, the automatic numbering of identical parts, and the ability to automatically generate fabrication drawings or NC files. These are some of the foundational functionalities that Revit is currently missing. 

Your input as a community has been invaluable in helping us identify which tools and capabilities are most important to you as we continue to develop and improve our solutions. We understand the importance of having tools that are reliable, intuitive, easy to use, and customizable. Tools that enhance productivity, streamline collaboration, and automate repetitive tasks.   

We appreciate your patience and understanding as we look to enhance solutions with this in mind and work towards a BIM-centric Steel Detailing tool. 

I am a Steel Detailer, and I do not care about BIM. All I need is reliable and robust Steel Detailing software 

As a Steel Detailer myself, I completely understand where this is coming from. The priority is always to have robust and reliable software that enables us to carry out work efficiently. Discussions about BIM and data exchange with Engineers can seem academic without the right tools in place. 

That said, our strategy is two-pronged. Our primary focus is on incorporating the Steel Detailing capabilities from Advance Steel into Revit. Simultaneously, we're dedicated to addressing the challenges and limitations that you've so effectively communicated to us via the Ideas Station. 

This approach helps ensure that we're not just bringing in new features, but also making necessary improvements to the existing system. Our goal is to offer you a comprehensive tool that meets your Steel Detailing needs while also providing the added benefits of BIM integration. 

----- 

Finally, we have decided to make some changes to the configuration of the Advance Steel category on the Community Forums. We have made the decision to archive both the Advance Steel Ideas and Advance Steel Customization boards.   

Why: 

Advance Steel Ideas: We do not want to set false expectations around the development of Advance Steel.  

Advance Steel Customization: Following an audit of the board, it does not meet the criteria for success, and coupled with the community also using the Advance Steel Forum for customization relation topics, we have decided to move the content from this board to the Advance Steel Forum.  

How: 

The Advance Steel Ideas & Advance Steel Customization board will change to read-only on March 29, 2024, and then it will be archived.

Will archiving delete the thread? 

No, Archiving moves the thread from the affected board to a forum archive. 

Will this content be linked to the thread once archived? 

As new community content is created, archived content will be cross-linked to ensure the validity and consistency of the archived content. E.g., If an old link to an archived forum topic is selected, this link will redirect to the new piece of community-generated content. 

[bigcarl5000kg]

@piotr_pysz,

many hanks for your feedback. I can't believe more things from your expression (see the red mark):

1. quote:

"What does it mean that Advance Steel is in maintenance mode? 

It means that we are providing customer support for the product, porting it to the new versions of AutoCAD, fixing major bugs, and providing all the functionalities that it has today. It also means that we are not developing new features or functionalities for Advance Steel."

Why:

during the entire history of Advance Steel in the hands of Autodesk, it did not succeed, so I do not understand this statement. Regardless of whether the problems were reported directly, in the forum or in the Idea Station.

2. quote:

"Advance Steel Ideas: We do not want to set false expectations around the development of Advance Steel."

Why:

Autodesk has offered nothing else to Advance Steel users, only false expectations ... look how long it took and how far it has come. I'm amazed at how incredibly durable the user is.

In conclusion, I would say ... Autodesk is trying to create a good atmosphere again ... such a calm before the storm 😉

[Flies-Eyes]

Has there been updates to the Roadmap since September 2023, or is that version the current strategy?

[Flies-Eyes]

Why they still don't consider AdS to be a BIM modelling application is beyond me.  

Revit simply has too many limitations in its foundation to successfully achieve what the sales department is spruiking.

I wish them luck, they will need it and some.

[anthonyBMQL6]

Autodesk has never considered its sole trader users and how difficult there entire system for receiving help is, I’ve been a user of Advanced steel for 8 years and the amount of man hours I’ve spent tweaking and manipulating the system to achieve an outcome to produce acceptable drawing sets to the market is unfathomable and now you expect me to learn new software with presumably no support from autodesk, I’m just trying to make a living, I’m not aspiring to be your next Guinea pig to develop your software. 

[Flies-Eyes]

They have a special subscription plan just for you, to squeeze just that little bit more revenue out.

[anthonyBMQL6]

Yeah that subscription is about as handy as a bunch in the teeth to a bloke trying to make a living in which he only uses about 4 of those programs semi proficiently all the other useless or should say possibly useful programs would be impossible to learn as a sole trader, training and training aids are so out of the reach of your small consulting companies 

[anthonyBMQL6]

Nice story Piotr Pysz, sounds like a real sales pitch,  almost the same one I received over tens years ago when I started exploring Advance steel, one of your leading Advance steel guru’s giving a demo was convinced back then that Revit was going to take over from all other software, I don’t think autodesk even know how their  users use the software 

[acbsdesign]

Hi @piotr_pysz 

Thank you very much for taking time and posting this.

It looks like we finally have a person to talk to who speaks the detailing language.

I am located in the USA, certified Class I steel detailer, same scope of work for roughly 18 years, a production manager and design engineer in the past. 

The last time when I counted projects were 300+ structural and 250-260-bridges.

I switched to another software first because I did not want to work with a software without new features, but mainly because fabricators wanted the pop-marks and hard stamps Tekla has.

Pop-marks at the top holes locations for shear plates and clip angles attached to beams' webs.

Not scribing-most of the fabricators I know use CNC equipment that either does not support scribing, or they do not want to slow down the beam line.

Only two punches in the web where the top hole of the shear plate or angle is.

Tekla has this in their default installation, without any additional licenses from third-party developers.

If Autodesk can add this to the Revit roadmap it will be great, in the default installation.

1. NC support as described above

2. Labels / part marks and weld symbols stability and to be able to configure position in 4 quadrants for parts attached to columns for example-label and weld mark for shear plate located in top-right quadrant in column section to match the position of the shear plate.

3. If possible to be done-cloning-included in default installation.

4. Dimensions to update following changes-Advance is actually better in this than some competitions when it comes to dimension requests and updating after changes.

5. Single sign-in to my Autodesk account to be able to use this functionality.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[AntDrt]

Hello @piotr_pysz 

Thanks for the explanation about the autodesk vision for steel detailing. 

By the way, we are aware about the commercial language 

We need more than a simple "we are on the way"

We need to get involved in the developpement, to show you how we work and exchange and collaborate together.

Revit can be (not is) a great platform for steel detailing but he need to learn the real 3d modelisation, not only plan,section modelisation. 

Revit can be hard to learn but it is possible.

Just let us show you the Best way to make it user friendly and efficient.

Thanks

@AntDrt - this post has been edited due to Community Rules & Etiquette violation.

[Flies-Eyes]

Agreed. We still have projects to deliver and old projects to maintain. Once again Autodesk show zero respect to their customers.

It is already possible, without any need for further development, to push an Advance Steel model to Revit with Assembly grouping, with included assembly numbers, part numbers, material and all the other BIM data parameters. Advance Steel can already automate drawing outputs, have you come any Revit Users that can run a script to out 1000 drawings with dims and labels in under an hour? I have yet to find any, which doesn't mean they don't exist; it just seems they aren't that common.

[anthonyBMQL6]

lots of commentary on this topic no response from autodesk, I think that says it right there.

Again  autodesk have no idea how or what users need from the software 

[Flies-Eyes]

Considering the impact this will have on Consultants, Details and Process Plant operators, I am surprised very few Users give a toss.

[piotr_pysz]

Hello,

I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to read the post and provide feedback.

Just a few comments and questions from me.

@Flies-Eyes 
The September version of the Roadmap is the current one. I will keep the community posted on all updates.
Can you clarify what do you mean when you say "Revit simply has too many limitations in its foundation"?

@anthonyBMQL6 
I am sorry to hear that you feel that way about our plans.
Can you clarify what do you mean by that "...how difficult there entire system for receiving help is"?

@acbsdesign 
Thanks for the detailed list
2- Can you provide a drawing sample? (Can be a private message)

@AntDrt 
Thank you for offering your time to help the development Team. I'll keep that in mind and contact you shortly.

[EricOlson1973]

Even if Revit is what you want to migrate Advance Steel's functionality to, the maintenance mode switch seems woefully premature.  As you mentioned, it will take years to get Revit up to speed.  Now we are stuck with stagnant software in the interim which would greatly benefit from a bit of additional love and care.

Additionally. Revit is so clearly not geared toward the industrial side.  Not everything is a commercial building.  My company specializes in marine structures with large diameter rolled pipe, access platforms, caged ladders, and complex connections.  Revit can pull this off, I suppose, but it seems to be a lot more challenging.

For example, the model below was done in Advance Steel and imported into InfraWorks.

[Flies-Eyes]

Autodesk has a whole Revit forum dedicated to collecting details of the limitations of the application.  Me adding more points to that long list of limitations will only place an additional burden on the Revit development team.

I wish the development team well and look forward to see what is delivered.

[Ignus.E]

Apart from a few other things, one concern that I have is the following. For example if I model of a conveyor gantry in Advance Steel and the incline design changes, I can basically just take the whole gantry and rotate it to the new incline with no issues. With Revit, since the elements are generally associated with the level or ref place, to change this angle would almost mean a complete redo as, vertical rotation of the complete gantry would not be possibly with the current way Revit functions. For Building design and fabrication I think the integration would be easier in that environment. But looking forward to the possibilities. Thanks   

[anthonyBMQL6]

Ive been using autodesk products for around 18years now and in my
experience accessing training or even help from the autodesk channels is
hard.
Training usually is in a metropolitan area such as Melbourne for me and
that is a 5 hour drive. The training is usually a week long course with a
set curriculum that is generally not tailored to more advanced users and
the expense is in the thousands, for a sole trader this is way out of our
reach, not only the cost of the training but the cost to travel,
accomodation and the week of lost income.
the auotdesk online portal through your subscription is so intricate to
navigate, and to access help through your reseller channels is of no use,
by the time you call them and then they try to find someone with the
expertise to help they generally don't have answers and then write up a
ticket to get it moved onto someone else in the world.
I find the technical issues I come across are for very advanced users that
have the knowledge to help, Murray Niebling is my go to.
Time is money for me so I don't have time to waste trying to go through the
reseller or autodesk avenues I want to resolve very quickly.
as far as REVIT and parametric software it would not allow me to design as
freely as the type of work im doing is predominantly brownfields and we 3D
scan everything so im modeling new design within the point cloud, this will
be from steel structures, stairs platforms piping and process
infrastructure all in one model, i sometimes are also collaborating with
other teams using anything from civil 3D to Revit and structural
engineering in spacegas, and none of the autodesk products integrate very
well at all, not as you sale pitch them anyway. I could go on for hours.

[EricOlson1973]

I can relate to this. We do a lot of brownfield work with laser scans as well. So much more efficient in AS.

[egidijus_drafting]

 2 [green frame, clipping]  major bugs in one drawing ( actually I can name another two of the bet present assembly), that has been reported years ago with zero attention whatsoever. Until Autodesk will actually start doing, instead of talking – we have zero confidence that you can deliver.

@egidijus_drafting - this post has been edited due to Community Rules & Etiquette violation.