Move 'comma'|'Dot' decimal separator to 3dsMAX Preferences.

[Marc_Auv]

3dsMAX inherit decimal separator from windows regional advanced setting, which in a lot of countries use the SI convention: 'comma' as decimal separator (1,16).
Most of keyboard around the world, use 'dot' on keyboard numerical pad, and most of other software/scripting language use 'dot', not comma.
It can start being a problem in collaborative workflow, because when using 'Dot' as decimal separator , 'comma' is list separator, but with 'coma' as decimal separator, list separator is 'semicolon'.

example:
 _float = 1.16 -> vector [x , y , z] -> expression = if (a=1.16, true, false)

vs.

_float = 1,16 -> vector [x ; y ; z] -> expression = if (a=1,16; true; false)
This behaviour, can quickly break a sharing workflow, specially with scene using expression technique coming from 2 different computer with different regional settings (example, scene having a thinking particles system using expression node)
Also using 'comma' as decimal separator do not allow user to use the 'dot' from keyboard numerical pad to enter value in max GUI.
One other point is MXS use dot as decimal separator no matter what windows regional settings are, so it break the experience inside 3dsMAX itself having or coma or dot in GUI, but dot in MXS.
To resolve all of this issues, most of users using windows language using coma change the advanced 'region&Language' setting to use 'dot' instead of 'comma', but this is a trick that need to be know by user (so not for newbies)
Last point is near every year since a long long time, on every fresh 3dsMAX release, max behavior is broken because of this, if user have changed the default decimal separator from 'comma' to 'dot', so 3dsMAX randomly change the 'dot' to 'comma' to 'dot', witch make for those users 3dsMAX unusable until a fix many weeks/months latter.

To resolve this, it could be great that the default decimal separator will be set on 3dsMAX preferences, no matter what windows settings are instead of inheriting from windows settings, so user can choose to use coma or dot, depending on preferences, (put dot as the default decimal separator, for having a consistent experience with GUI/maxscript).

this should resolve scene sharing using expressions technique (specially with tP), fix this fresh max release issue turning max to a unusable software until a fix appear and make it more clear for new user, instead of searching on forum or google, why and how to resolve this behavior (because there is no mention inside the documentation for this).

Edited by
Discussion_Admin

[Anonymous]

Have to agree it should be a preferences option.

[Anonymous]

I fully agree with the solution proposed by @Marc_Auv

Thanks to all the dev team that will work on this.

[MartinBeh]

This could also be tied to the language that 3ds Max uses. If you run an English version of 3ds Max, chances are very high that you also want to use a dot for decimals. So it would be a preference that could be pre-loaded by the language chosen.

[Marc_Auv]

@MartinBehThat's not specially a good idea for it to use the 3dsMAX language :

=> first because I do not want to have in GUI '1,009.16' as a float, that's disturbing

=> but if it's dependant of the 3dsMAX language (who sincerely use MAX in NON english/default language?), this will not help on the sharing worklow part (tP expression for exemple, if done by one using it in french (coma|period) sending it to one using it English/Default (dot)), or on other cache file (like xml of Bifrost, that also use the language setting decimal separator 🙂 ).
=>and then you will find few people wanted a coma|period, when using it in english (exceptions exist)..

[brentscannell]

I just got word that some of the devs are taking a crack at this, I'll post back here when I get an update on their results 🙂

[brentscannell]

Hi all, just following up on this idea with the release of 3ds Max 2019.2

We can now consider this idea implemented! Thanks everyone for your ideas and contributions, keep it up!

[Marc_Auv]

@brentscannell

That's not exactly implemented, MAX2019.2 just fix the normal behaviour of MAX on this point, but if my windows language is using coma as decimal separator, I'm still not able to use dot inside MAX2019.2 (so my list separator is semicolon etc, and we come back to the main idea, and probably bug on future fresh release), so it's not really implemented, 2019.2 just do a bug fix….

I'm asking to 3dsMAX to NOT be dependant of windows settings, because of troubles this cause (and bugs that happened because of this on fresh release).

[Anonymous]

I fully agree with Marc. This is a quick turnaround and not the real/best solution of having a separate choice of type of decimal separation.
We only try to give you our best suggestion.
Best
Alessio

[brentscannell]

Ok, I have reverted the status change while I take a closer look at this.

Let me ask you, do we really need to create a new preference for this, or could we maybe achieve this by ensuring that the number pad "decimal" key inputs a "decimal-character" into 3ds Max, instead of a "." input all the time? I'd prefer not to duplicate settings if they've already been set by windows.

So, for example, if I set up a custom and non standard decimal seperator in windows settings (for example, "m"). Would it be acceptable if 3ds Max displayed "m" in decimal locations and input an "m" character when you pushed the number pad "." key? Microsoft Excel, for example, does this.

[Marc_Auv]

@brentscannell

Problem with decimal separator inside 3dsMAX, it's it do not affect only user entry on keybord, and GUI, it also affect stored files (3dsMAX.ini, bifrost xml, FFX simulation report feedback, csv export,...).
For csv this start to be weird because when using "," as decimal separator, ";" is list separator, but MXS will force "." as decimal separator, and "," as list sepator, so user will not be able to use the csv if windows decimal separator is ","  since MXS use "." , but will be ok if generated with a plugin not using MXS), so weird …

Most of the time you will find people having a windows language using a "," as default decimal separator, but wanted "." because the keyboard have a "." on numerical pad (some have a ",") and because script languages use "." not matter what windows settings are…
"." as decimal separator | list separator is "," | line separator is ";"
else
"," as decimal separator |  ";" as list separator | ";" as line separator too

Why 3dsMAX need to check windows settings? A lot of software for decimal separator force "." and "," for list separator , but support user to use both in GUI as entry (it just correct "'," to "." for decimal separator, and force the use of "." as decimal separator and "," inside expression or script (houdini, nuke, MXS, …)…

Forcing max to use the right decimal separator when we press the decimal separator on keyboard numerical pad is perfect...

Mudbox, if windows setting use "," as decimal separator , support using both (no matter if we use numerical pad or standard keyboard "." or ",", but yep, mudbox do not have the need of a list separator), that transparent to user inside the GUI.

I personally leave in a country where windows settings for decimal is "," , but want to use ".", personnally my preference will be that you force "." inside max to have a consistant workflow with other tools, and MXS, but i'm sure inverse exist (it always exist exception, but a lot of other software force it, nobody complain)…

Some software force it to "." (houdini, nuke, blender), and support decimal separator on keyboard numpad, no matter if windows setting use "." or "," to be the software decimal separator (".", since there is not really software forcing "," as decimal separator).

For number they simply adopt to display number without any grouping "100000" is displayed "100000",
not "100 000" or "100'000"or "100,000" or "100.000" ,because all of those are possible, i can force windows to use coma as grouping symbol, decimal searator, list separator, negative number symbol, etc, all the same symbol….that's silly but i can, not sure it will be handle great by 3dsMAX (or any software in fact)…

3dsMAX should force one or give it as an option (preferences), but should not rely on windows settings (and support 3dsMAX decimal separator stroke on keyboard numpad, no matter if "." or ",", this will be great for users ).

[Marc_Auv]

@brentscannell
 Coma/dot decimal separator, is NOT completly fixed inside 2019.2.
For exemple, in many part inside the UI, coma decimal separator is displayed instead if 'dot' (not a big issue), but when using CTRL+N tool, if the result is a decimal number, since it will try to copy with a 'coma', it just copy the integer part and not the decimal part.

[brentscannell]

Hmm I am indeed seeing this behavior as well, thanks for bring it to my attention. Could I ask you to please log this over on our report a bug page? http://download.autodesk.com/us/support/report_a_bug.html

[Marc_Auv]

@brentscannellAlready reported as ' BSPR-32096 “,"/".” decimal separator still not completly fixed in 2019.2 '

(I'm now even more convinced that like many other software, you should force the '.', and pressing numpad decimal symbol put a dot not matter what windows settings are… 😉 )

[madsd]

Nuke it and go with point in all cases.

[gandhics]

Just use dot. Forget about comma.

[attilaszabo]

Assuming that in the short term we can't switch 3ds Max to use dot (".") as decimal separator everywhere, would you agree that having the numeric keypad's decimal separator key input the decimal separator character set in the Windows Regional settings (Numeric tab) in all UI fields of 3ds Max (just like in MS Excel) be a good improvement?

So for example, if you are running French Windows, you would not need to change the decimal separator in your regional settings to "." just to use the num keypad's decimal separator button on a US keyboard, because pressing it would enter "," in the edit fields in 3ds Max.

Thanks

Attila Szabo

Technical Product Owner, 3ds Max

[Marc_Auv]

@attilaszabo IT should always been how it work (num pad decimal separator typing the right decimal separator, 3dsMAX forcing dot, or inheriting from windows settings)...

But you will switch the problem, it will type 'coma' in GUI, but no longer 'dot' in MXS, OSL, etc....problem will be just switched...

As long as i could force windows using dot and working with dot inside 3dsMAX with no issue, +1 for forcing numpad decimal separator behaviour as MS EXCEL for me, for short term this will still be an improovement.

[n-chevillard]

@Marc_Auv Do you know if a solution have been given since 2018 ? 

I'm on 3ds 2025 and still have the issue. Not on my house though, with a different computer (both personal and professional computer are on same windows except one is business edition and the other one is family edition).

Looking forward yo have any hint.

Nicolas.