IFC exporter ? (Updated to include Import and Export)

[RichJacobUK]

No doubt most people are becoming aware of and familiar with the IFC file format. With the advent of BIM and the steady progression into a BIM mentality it would seem an obvious move to have IFC capabilities in 3ds max and other similar software. I am able to export an IFC out of revit for instance, which is very useful . But If I want to send my revit model into MAX and add some other objects/models to my scene then I would still like to be able to export to IFC format from MAX. Please can you consider adding this functionality to MAX in the very near future.

Thanks.

Kind regards

[dgorsman]

@RichJacobUK - you're mixing "export" and "import" terms liberally here, so could you please clarify?  Do you mean translate the contents of an IFC file into 3DSMAX?

Importing IFC to 3DSMAX might be doable, it's a well-structured format.  But it might be considered redundant given that there is already support for Revit as well as FBX.

I don't think that exporting IFC from 3DSMAX would be practical, as the program isn't exactly a building/structural/etc. design tool - lack of data, lack of precision, and so on.

[Anonymous]

IFC is being used more and more within the civil engineering space. 12D, Bentley Open Roads. The beauty of 3ds Max to take these formats say through the civil view plugin (standard on Max) means that these formats are accepted. Putting it through REVIT is not a great result on long linear roads or railways. Being able to import / export IFC from Max gives it far better reach in the engineering world currently occupied by a myriad of software packages that dont quite do it all like Max does.

[Anonymous]

Civilview in 3ds Max registers change of xml/txt files and ideally IFC from 12D or other software that produces IFC would be a great addition.

[tino_riedel]

Hello,

we have often customers with IFC data and want them import in 3ds Max as quickly as possibly without any detour. Some customers also demand IFC as output for further usage. The demand for these two functions has arised in the recent years, i think since 2014 as we got the first requests. Please think about a Import/Export function in the first step with minimum functionality (geometry, colors) and later with support of more sophisticated functionality for better interoperability with other systems you also provide (Revit for example).

Best Regards

Tino Riedel

[Tupaia]

Hi!

As we know, IFC is a plain text format, a scene description, not a mesh format like e.g. FBX.

Max would need to support all sorts of BIM building parts... walls, slabs, roofs, columns, windows, doors, stairs, railings, ... according to the specifications of the buildingsmart.org consortium.

But hey: many of these objects already exist - under 'AEC Extended' etc. (somewhat strewn over the 'Create geometry' panel, however).

Yet these don't seem to follow the BIM specifications well... wall miters seem odd, and there is no wall layering, for example.

However, maybe these could be reworked to BIM objects. A bigger project, if done right, I suppose, but BIM will stick, so it makes sense. I'll vote.

Seen this?

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-forum/bim-and-ifc-import-export-from-3d-studio-max/td-p/70012...

[brentscannell]

I'm not terribly familiar with IFC format but a quick gander at the spec has peaked my interest!

The current release notes suggest it supports both meshes and b-reps/NURBS geometry:

1. new subtype of tessellated geometry enabling planar and polygonal boundaries with inner loops
2. new elementary surfaces and intersection curves for more stable definitions of advanced b-rep's (NURBS)

Have you guys got any sample files we could play with?

-Brent

[Tupaia]

Allright!

I took the sample files from here

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/getting-started/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/...

and exported them in Revit to IFC:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eyrtf0k55jcd66q/rac_advanced_sample_project.zip?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zvjoto25d9fy70u/rac_basic_sample_project.zip?dl=0

As an Autodesk employee - why not install Revit and play with it?

You, or your workmates, are sitting on a big, fat import/export IFC library anyway. Can't you go over to the other department, grab the sourcecode and slap it onto Max?

=]

[chroma123]

As IFC is now coming with a decent API very soon, the architecture/building industry will need the following the coming years:

• Import IFC and retain all BIM-data into 3d studio max
• Make changes in BIM-data in 3d studio max
• Export back to IFC-format, with all BIM-data still there
• This will force need for using BIM-libraries in 3d studio max

I will tell you why.

The reason is because every big firm is thinking digitalization and efficiency. It's the new thing, and it will not stop. It's a robot revolution.

That means, we need to work on ONE platform. Visualization of buildings will not stop with stills and animations. It will not stop with exporting a scene to 3ds max Interactive or Unity or UE4 or something else. We cannot remodel/superdupermagician-fix technical drawings just to be able to make a VR or AR scene. And that's very limited in its use.

It's forcing other workaround-tools to emerge.

OpenXR is coming. 

Datasmith is coming.

However, it will stop when we can export a file into any XR format, have the customer making changes on flooring, stair types, kitchens, wall elements, window types, lighting types, bathroom furniture, with real product numbers and data, including dynamic prices. And export back out to the new IFC format with all BIM-data intact and updated. This will make a real list of products that can be used to something, and it will have customer value to it.

AND the viz department can go ahead and make sexy still imagery or cinematographic stuff with focus on composition where absolutely all elements are adjusted to fit the perfect composition. From the same file that just came back from the customer's choosing, or perhaps before the customer is in the picture anyway. Point is, same platform in and out. We gotta face it, realtime engines are simply not competitive with real raytracers like V-Ray, and probably will not be the next 5 to 10 years.

It might be possible that Autodesk want to force use of Revit directly into to 3ds Max Interactive with its own file format, but it will be stupid not to get 3d studio max alone support IFC with full BIM in/out, just because of competitors. Many people that will start using OpenXR will still use 3d studio max to achieve what they want. They don't necessarily want to use Revit, neighter 3d studio max Interactive. Also remember, all other businesses involved in the building process will use IFC. The plumber, the electrician, everyone. It will be needed for a house's documentation. These will not draw in Revit. That's why a general support of the new IFC version will be a must, and not only the intern workflow of Revit->max->3dsmax interactive.

Please team up with IFC to work with their new API to make this happen. 

IFC will be a big game changer the coming two-three years when third parties are starting to make software on it in combination with OpenXR.

And demand for advertisement and user experiences are not going to stop. We who work in the visualization and XR world need to be able to work on the same files as the architects and draftsmen exports, because of the BIM information. 

Not sure why and how Autodesk has completely missed this. Everybody in the construction business talks about what I now mentioned as a holy grail.

3d studio max simply needs IFC import and export with full support for BIM-data.

[brentscannell]

HI @chroma123

Thank you so much for this idea! Its actually the second time this has come up in recent weeks. If you don't mind, I will merge this idea with yours (https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-ideas/ifc-import-export-3ds-max/idc-p/7543674)

I really appreciate the level of detail you've added - and I'd also like to copy and paste it into the comments of the other one so we don't lose any of these important points. From there we can have a focused conversation in a single thread..what do you think?

-Brent Scannell

Product Owner

3ds Max Family of Products and Services

[brentscannell]

Hi @Tupaia

Thank you for these resources..but this poses a fundamental problem: why would I need to import an IFC that has been exported Revit when  could just import the Revit format directly? What I'm interested most in is IFC examples from outside the Autodesk Ecosystem. Are any IFC publishers saving meshes or are they all STEP based b-reps? What does the metadata look like? If I bring a bag of objects from an IFC file into Revit..would I know it was from IFC or would it become like any other native Revit object?

[Tupaia]

Hi!

IFC files can come from numerous other sources of course, not only Revit (e.g. ArchiCAD, Rhino+VisualArq, Bentley MicroStation, Vectorworks, ...).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry_Foundation_Classes

"It is a platform neutral, open file format specification that is not controlled by a single vendor or group of vendors. It is an object-based file format with a data model developed by buildingSMART (formerly the International Alliance for Interoperability, IAI) to facilitate interoperability in the architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) industry, and is a commonly used collaboration format in Building information modeling (BIM) based projects. The IFC model specification is open and available.[1] It is registered by ISO and is an official International Standard ISO 16739:2013."

The technical details you have to look up for yourself. However, it does neither store mesh nor NURBS data.

An example wall description:

#61275= IFCWALLTYPE('28i3i5WDD8Ju0YHnzXOy6$',#41,'Basic Wall:Interior - 165 Partition (1-hr)',$,$,$,$,'232754',$,.STANDARD.);

You could maybe build upon those old AEC object, as mentioned here:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-ideas/rework-on-aec-doors-windows-stairs-etc/idc-p/7415979#M2...

In answer to you question:

I guess there's no way to distinguish IFC imported from 'normally' created parts afterwards (except you put them on a layer or something). A wall is a wall, so to say.

[chroma123]

Thank you, @brentscannell

[chroma123]

@Tupaia, there's no way to use the old AEC objects when thinking about the future. The construction branch needs seamless import/editing/export of IFC, with all data intact. And that's because the future is interactive.

[Tupaia]

Hi!
The thought about AEC objects came up because they look like something that could be updated/recycled/pimped/extended for usage as IFC objects.

If that is feasible I don't know. If AD wants/needs to rewrite IFC parts from scratch - great!

However, if there were new and fresh IFC objects of all sorts, we maybe wouldn't be needing the AEC stuff anymore, right?

[chroma123]

From what I know, IFC is coming out with a new version that actually has an API soon. It wouldn't be possible to do it with the current IFC structure. My suggestion is that Autodesk teams up with them to come up with a great solid API structure that makes it possible to implement an import/export handler, and support for changing parametric values. As far as I know, IFC supports meshes.

[chroma123]

Are there any news here? The new IFC is out, and some technical drafts programs are starting to support the following process:
1) Export ifc in
2) Make changes to the model
3) Export ifc out, with the changes.

It's pretty critical.

[brentscannell]

HI @chroma123

I understand the critical nature of this feature for your workflows, but at least in the short to medium term is it not among the top priorities for the development team. Are there other discussions happening around the need for this workflow outside of this thread that we can keep and eye on and become more informed about going forward?

[chroma123]

@brentscannell Thanks for response.

I think that the construction business caters for the answers you need, and Autodesk is highly into that business. There is a need coming right up for exporting and importing models with IFC data attached to it, and maintained. I do not have any discussions to refer to, but I guess you are looking for similar interest from other companies and persons - and there is. But the essence is really that IFC is the new standard for construction data. There is already a huge "holy grail" demand for it to get supported in VR and AR/MR solutions, and ultimately you could look into making one-button export or one-button IFC import buttons in programs like Revit and 3d studio max. That will also make it usable within 3ds max interactive as well if you build a translator for it, or of course also it's up to others like Unity and Epic (Unreal) to make theirs based on the same standard. Having a model exported from Revit or Max, imported into UE4, with the data intact, changing sizes to models or swapping models (from an extensive country based IFC library), and then exporting back to IFC would be a very good way to work. 

I know that IFC will be the center of the construction business in the forthcoming time, and Autodesk simply has to put some priority to it to be up there in front. Please.