Why does 3dsMax really suck? My opinion.

Why does 3dsMax really suck? My opinion.

Anonymous
Not applicable
23,006 Views
65 Replies
Message 1 of 66

Why does 3dsMax really suck? My opinion.

Anonymous
Not applicable

3DsMax is long outdated both morally and physically. On the background of modern programs, it looks already lame and there are real reasons for this, in my opinion. 

The software base.
1) Firstly, why is 3dsmax paid with some licenses? I understand you make money, but you can make money in a different way! Why can't I download 3dsmax and just install it? Why should I go through any kind of identification, verification of login and password with the site, enter some keys, etc... This is an outdated approach, it's not relevant in 2021! People just want to download, click install and just run the program without all that nonsense. The second is the outdated software base, 3dsmax is loaded very long, very long, very long, so long that you can go pour coffee, drink coffee, come and it is still loaded! At the same time I have not a weak computer, amd 7, ddr4 16gb, GeF1080... The system is not weak.
The long load times in max are horrible. 
Maybe if 3dsmax didn't load everything, all the plugins built in, modifiers, mini-programs, etc. that it has, then the loading would not be so long, for example, I don't need all the modifiers and all the plugins with all kinds of scripts... I use 1\4 of the entire Max list, and when you start the program it all loaded immediately, but why? It would be nice to load just the right thing, for example to create a menu in which you select the components that you use, and all, ala Blender, loaded at startup the program only they are... you do not need others! 
Again, the example of Blender, turn off what you don't need and that's it... everything works quickly and the program opens from startup in 3 seconds!

 

smilenp2_2-1638007616012.png

 

Interface.
2) All components within the interface are wildly slow. For example, I have a scene and I want to expand the windows of scrolls and menus wider, I select the edge of the menu, pull, and 3dsmax starts terribly slow, everything glitches, everything hangs... why? What is done that causes such glitches and brakes? Well, nonsense, look at the same Blender for example, there you can throw a hundred menus and everything without brakes and glitches, and just as easy to remove them again. It's a shame that such problems in a program like 3smax, and this in 2021!!! 

3d viewport.
3)
1 - Horrible 3d viewport, horrible! Horrible!  Horrible!  Horrible!  Horrible!  Horrible!  Terrible!  Horrible! 
The most disgusting 3d viewport I've ever seen! Display shadows horrible, the mapping of reflections on the surfaces horrible, display glare and flare horrible, color palette and how it is displayed on the subjects horrible, there is no normal gamma adjustment and color correction display, the scene is overlit, then overlighted, then on the contrary goes into black... well, the most terrible 3d viewport!
Objects with additional maps like normal or bump look disgusting, you can not adjust the texture, for example if you make a model for the game you can not understand how it will look in Unity or UE... Why such a viewport I do not understand.
Example, don't look at the shading of the model, look at the shadow, I just included it in standard mode, without light sources. There is no material on the model.

 

smilenp2_3-1638008050678.png

You see the ripples, is that normal? That's crazy.
And here is the same model in Blender of the bases of light in the standard parameter.

smilenp2_5-1638008271111.png

Can you see the difference? 
I'm not even talking about bloom, surface mirroring effects, render mode of the same eevee... etc... 
I have a feeling that 3dsmax is a newcomer that just came out and doesn't understand what to do and how to do it. 

And then I turn on 1 light bulb, no materials on the model, everything is by default.
3dsmax

smilenp2_6-1638008603321.png

Immediately got artifacts, some glitches, sharp shadows, no transition of light into shadow, sharp edges, etc.. And all this I did not adjust, but just put a free bulb with standard values.
And now let's put the same bulb with standard values in Blender

smilenp2_7-1638008735745.png

Can you see the difference? Soft shadows, soft transitions of light to shadow, soft gradients, no artifacts, the shadow is smooth and beautiful... it makes your eyes happy. 

2 - Why not make an example of how it is implemented in Blender to switch the view mode to render one button, you can simplified render, but for example in Blender it is implemented perfectly!

smilenp2_1-1638007543284.png


There are lots and lots of things to go over in 3dsmax today, but I will draw my conclusion.
Conclusion:
I have been working with 3dsmax for a long time, for about 7 years, I love it, but I am very sad to see the decline of such an editor. If 3dsmax doesn't start changing itself, and doesn't evolve, it will die, and its death is already on the doorstep.



 

Accepted solutions (1)
23,007 Views
65 Replies
Replies (65)
Message 21 of 66

sqwert
Advocate
Advocate

using .obj files is too slow. I want as smooth mesh as possible when I export in to Zbrush and not have to spend time smoothing, to do that I have to subdivide and in Max that takes a looooong time as it plods along at 7.5% CPU usage.

And apparently the viewport does not use multi threading? is that why its so slow to update.

Seems I will stick with .step files and keep the vert count to less that 1million, cannot really work with both high and low poly versions in Max as I do with Blender.

0 Likes
Message 22 of 66

Diffus3d
Advisor
Advisor

As far as transferring normals, I suggest Normal Thief... the spritual successor to slidenormalthief for those of us old enough to remember those days.  

 

Best Regards,

0 Likes
Message 23 of 66

sqwert
Advocate
Advocate

I could not imagine using Max to resize my combined high/low meshes from Zbrush as I do in Blender or 3DCoat the ui is just too slow. 

 

Unreal Engine 5 gives developers the ability to display meshes with millions of polygons at playable framerates, Max seems incapable of working with such high poly counts.

 

Which begs the question what is the point of Max going into the future ?

 

Here is my High/Low in Blender using 3D mouse to navigate, simply no way I could do anything close to that in Max

https://youtu.be/ftxxS-Sp-Po

Message 24 of 66

martin.coven
Alumni
Alumni

Hi sqwert. What do you mean by resize? Max doesn't have an issue with millions of polygons. Might it be a driver issue?


Martin Coven
Senior Designer

0 Likes
Message 25 of 66

sqwert
Advocate
Advocate

When you import a mesh from Zbrush you need to resize to the scale your need for your game. I usually resize both the high and low poly meshes at the same time to avoid problems when baking the high to low in Substance painter.

 

My drivers are fine and up to date. 

The only tool I have that stutters in the viewport or is slow is Max.

It clearly has a problem.

0 Likes
Message 26 of 66

martin.coven
Alumni
Alumni
Can you send us a file to investigate?

Martin Coven
Senior Designer

0 Likes
Message 27 of 66

sqwert
Advocate
Advocate

Sorry I refuse to beta test something that I have to pay for.

 

I dont even make any money using Max , but you want me to pay for a sub each year and beta test for you. 

Message 28 of 66

I_Megaman_i
Collaborator
Collaborator


@davidlanier Speaking of fairness, you should have regional pricing worldwide and cut the price for indie and freelancers in general. Just like you said, it is a 40 year old product, you are asking a freaking subscription that only a big studio can afford.  No wonder Blender almost become the industry standard and is beating the hell out of 3ds in some aspects. If you want it to be fair, make the worldwide regional pricing at least.

0 Likes
Message 29 of 66

jon.bell
Alumni
Alumni

@sqwert,

 

I do technical support for Autodesk, concentrating on 3ds Max. There are various reasons why your copy of 3ds Max may have poor viewport performance compared to other 3D packages or even other users with equivalent (or lesser) hardware. After handling more than 2,000 tech support cases from customers over the last 6 years, I've seen some customers have issues with 3ds Max that almost no other customers experience. Determining exactly why this is happening on your system will either help you work with Max more efficiently, and help us make Max better.

 

So, here are some things I would ask you if you filed a tech support case with me:

 

  1. What are your system specs? CPU, GPU, system RAM, GPU driver versions, BIOS date, number of monitors and so forth? If you ran the Dxdiag and System Info programs, saved their output and then sent me those text files in a private message, I'd be happy to look them over for you. 

    How to create a DxDiag file

    How to obtain a System Information (.nfo) file

  2. Are you working with 3ds Max and all its assets locally, from across a network, or from a cloud-based drive like Dropbox, OneDrive and so forth? If you're accessing items from across a network, are you using a regular server drive, an NAS or a RAID?
  3. If you're running across a network or using cloud storage for working assets, are you loading bitmaps or X-Refs from these drives?
  4. Do you have other peripherals attached, such as a 3D Connexion Space Mouse, Wacom tablet and/or Cintiq? If so, have you upgraded to the latest drivers for these?
  5. Have you added 3ds Max to a list of exceptions/exclusions for your antivirus/firewall software? I've seen issues where an antivirus software update will suddenly begin to slow down Max performance.
  6. Are you running multiple video cards connected via SLI? (SLI does nothing to improve viewport performance in 3D programs, and in fact can slow down some viewport operations.)
  7. Some 3ds Max settings on certain systems can impair performance (again, these are really dependent on the particular customer's machine). In the Customize > Preferences > General menu, have you turned off Load Plug-ins when Used? In Customize > Preferences > Files, have you turned off Reload Textures on Change?

@sqwert, if you want me to help you offline diagnose these Max problems with you, please log into your Autodesk Account, create a tech support case and put my name on it, and I'll be happy to work with you directly via Team Viewer to see if we can pinpoint exactly why these Max viewport issues are happening on your machine. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 



Jon A. Bell
Senior Technical Support Specialist, 3ds Max
0 Likes
Message 30 of 66

neyevac586
Observer
Observer

neyevac586_0-1645035889803.png

DDR4 32Gb 

You write as if I haven't launched 3ds Max up to this point and don't know anything about it. I work in addition to max in both Blender and Maya, I have experience and can compare. I work in max locally, 2 monitors, do not work with server systems, added max to the list of exceptions, use 1 video card, and so on. To be honest, 3d max needs a serious upgrade, and not just visual, but technical, he began to lose a lot against the background of other programs, for example, recently I had to make an xform of all the details of a complex model, the details were nested in Points, while in each points there were other points in which the details were embedded, I selected the entire model and pressed reset xform and everything broke, the whole shading broke, all the pacifiers of different sizes became, the whole hierarchy broke.. I swore long and loudly, spent half a day restoring all the work to its original appearance. Then, for the sake of experiment, I opened this model in Blender, selected everything and pressed Object-Apply-All Transforms and everything worked! Why Max broke everything, and poor Blender did everything. Do you compare Max's work with other 3d packages at all? For example, on various innovations.. convenience, quality of modifiers? The feeling that everything is developing except Max. The latest update of maxa only made me laugh.. and shame.


 

Message 31 of 66

jon.bell
Alumni
Alumni

@neyevac586 ,

 

I was addressing @sqwert in my post above. Are you the same person?



Jon A. Bell
Senior Technical Support Specialist, 3ds Max
0 Likes
Message 32 of 66

I_Megaman_i
Collaborator
Collaborator

Heres a little quiz for you jon.bell, I have several minimized windows, can you to tell me which one is the Bake To Texture window?:-)

3dsmax_rftHaVpfcv.png

0 Likes
Message 33 of 66

sqwert
Advocate
Advocate
AMD R7 2700X @4.250Mhz, X470 AORUS GAMING 7 WIFI (rev. 1.0) with F61 BIOS (Not F62 because is uses AGESA ComboV2 1.2.0.5 which causes problems). 32G F4-3200 DDR4, Nvidia RTX2070 video 511.25 driver. 3D Connexion 3D Space Mouse, Wacom tablet, Razor Tartarus keypad. 1 monitor. MS Defender AV. No plugins. Samsung 860 1TB SSD. All data local. No textures were loaded.
0 Likes
Message 34 of 66

sqwert
Advocate
Advocate

Cannot complain about these results, Out of Fusion360 was 1.2million vert obj to below

r1.png

r2.png

  

0 Likes
Message 35 of 66

sqwert
Advocate
Advocate

Watched a 10 minute you tube and read the retopo page on Autodesk. Very nice result after

r3.png

playing for 4 hours with retopo tools 50k polys. Not fully optimised low poly, a lot of loops that can be deleted, but all the detail is there and not a vertex touched. Only 1 crash when I was enabling and disabling stuff to get screenshots.

Message 36 of 66

jon.bell
Alumni
Alumni

@sqwert,

 

I strongly suspect that the drivers for your 3D Connexion 3D Space Mouse and/or Wacom tablet may be interfering with your 3ds Max viewport playback.

 

We've seen this happen multiple times, and the only way to test this thoroughly is to uninstall the drivers for both devices, unplug them, then reboot and try 3ds Max again. (Simply disconnecting the peripherals won't address the driver issue itself.) I know that 3D Connexion and Wacom have periodically offered beta drivers for customers to help them if they're having Max issues, so you might also check with them.

 

Try this out and let us know what happens, and good luck with the ReTopo tools in Max (which are pretty amazing!)



Jon A. Bell
Senior Technical Support Specialist, 3ds Max
0 Likes
Message 37 of 66

martin.coven
Alumni
Alumni

@sqwert 

 

I'm unable to reproduce any issue with performance and high poly count. This quick video shows easily navigating and scaling almost 34 million polys. This is on a laptop with a intel i9-9880H and a Quadro 5000 graphics card.

https://youtu.be/dM_Ba3_4j1E

If you can send us a file to try and repro your problem, I'd be happy to take a look.

 

Martin


Martin Coven
Senior Designer

0 Likes
Message 38 of 66

sqwert
Advocate
Advocate

Yea, not going to stop using wacom or 3D mouse. Either I work around the problem or stop using Max. It like going back to driving a horse and cart after using a Tesla for a few years. The retopo tools are amazing, captures every detail I wanted with amazing edge flow   🙂

0 Likes
Message 39 of 66

sqwert
Advocate
Advocate
Accepted solution
The lag was probably something I did, not having problems now. So will explore the various viewport settings, I suspect I turned on something.
Message 40 of 66

sqwert
Advocate
Advocate

Im very happy with my workspace, dont really use the keyboard at all. All shortcuts are mapped to Tartarus so I dont have to press multiple key as when deleting

desk.jpg

an edge loop + vertices 

0 Likes