VR Model Inspection

[papaf1]

Does anyone know if there’s a way to create a VR model that people can see in real scale using VR Glasses or something similar. I want to create a VR model that people can actually walk around and inspect.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @papaf1,

Posting as a regular guy and not in any official capacity...  

I think that's more the domain of Augmented Reality but I'm no expert.  For AR various companies sell backends that you can incorporate into your delivery platform.  The automotive industry is diving head first into this.  Fiat did some cool things in this regard.  More cool stuff here and here.  

Best Regards,

[KurtNeuburger]

Yes of course this is possible. Any 3d model can be made into a model that can be inspected in AR or VR. VR is often a little tougher because to walk around in an area you'll need a bit more setup and equipment (like cameras). AR is easier and it seems people are more comfortable with it versus the full immersion of VR.

Depending on your headset, you may need several tools to accomplish a decent AR/VR experience. The main ones we use are 3ds Max and Unity. Unity is the main tool that transfers your 3ds Max models into AR/VR.

[papaf1]

This is good stuff, thank you. If I had a large model to walk around, like some of the car models you see, what would I need for VR/AR.

[KurtNeuburger]

It complete depends on what device you are using to view the models in. The size of the model has no bearing on the hardware needed. You could go anywhere from only needing 3ds Max and then some exporting tools provided by and app called Augment, to needing unity and some developer tools to give you additional functionality in your AR/VR experience.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @papaf1,

You would need:

• a realtime engine to display the data from
• an image or pattern to be used by the backend to know where to display the object
• the backend/AR engine
• and a model.  

My experience is limited to Max and Unity/UDK.  Stringray can likely do it but it's a new software to me.  ARToolkit is an open source AR platform and also the display engine (I believe.)  There are others as well.  Some of them plug into game engines, some stand alone.  

Best Regards,

[papaf1]

Thank you Just
Can a VR head set be used with the Augment web solution, vs. the hand held option?

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

I think that is the goal behind the Hololens but I am not 100% sure.  Please note I am no expert here, but I think the big issue with VR helmets and AR is that there is no camera to capture the image to know where to replace with the 3D model.   For now it seems using a phone or tablet camera by holding in front of you is the primary method but obviously it's clunky and not ideal.  You need to be able to see your surroundings with AR so unless the VR helmet had a camera on front I don't know what could be done.  

I did see a video a while back which is VR/AR together to generate game levels superimposed over real walls so a bedroom looks like a dungeon or something along those lines.  Pretty cool but I cannot seem to find the link.

Best Regards,

[KurtNeuburger]

We'll, strictly speaking, no, a VR headset does not do AR in that the VR headset completely blocks the view of the real world. Augmented solutions allow viewing of the real world with virtual content added. So to do AR, without handheld devices, you'll need an AR headset like HoloLens instead of a VR headset.

[papaf1]

You know I'm not necessarily looking for AR (to place a model into reality). Although it would be AR, placing you into the VR world. I just want to have the ability to place a 3d model in front of a person and have the ability to walk around it like what you can do using the hand held devices. I would think it wouldn't be that far of a reach to get that technology of the hand held to a headset. Even if you use your phone to view it with an app. Naturally it would take someone much smarter than me to do this. I was just trying to see if there was something out there that already did this.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @papaf1,

It's tough because with a VR helmet on, you cannot see the real world room around you.  In VR you might see a 10 foot by 10 foot display, but if your real world room is 8 feet by 12 feet it's going to be awkward as people walk into real world walls that don't exist in the virtual space.  If you modeled the VR room to be the exact same size as the showroom then maybe it could work if your cable was long enough and you could somehow start the VR sim in the same exact spot as the user stands/starts in reality.  

Maybe I misunderstand you when you say 'walk around it'.  If the person wasn't moving in reality and you just wanted them to be able to walk around it in virtual space then you're already good to go, Max Interactive can do that.  But if you want them to have a 1:1 walking experience from reality to virtual, AR seems the only current option.  At least, that I'm aware of.  The only real technical hurdle is the ability to see around you with a VR helmet.  

Best Regards,

[papaf1]

If you have a model that is 10'x15'x8'tall and you would like to have a person view it in real scale. It would be nice to have it placed in VR against reality in a space large enough for it but not in any specific location, but on the ground. Using the headset, you can get a better sense of how large an object is and being able to walk around it to inspect it.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @papaf1,

My understanding is that what you are describing is actually Augmented Reality.  (Adding to reality.)  Whereas a full synthetic world is Virtual Reality.  The big problem with current AR implementations is that they require an image or object to 'trigger' the replacement for a 3D object.  So if that image is on the floor, it's easy to replace with a 3D car or something, but as soon as you look up then the AR backend no longer sees the replacement image and *poof* your 3D model disappears.  I think you're just a couple years ahead of technology with your idea.  

I agree with your earlier post, it's kind of unreasonable to expect people to walk around with their phone or tablet out constantly so they can see the object.  That's always been my main hang-up with AR, cool as it is.  I would be on the lookout for "AR Headsets" in the coming months/years.  Microsoft is calling this "Mixed Reality" which is sort of confusing on some level but they are clearly onto something.    

Here are some more links to expand on this a bit as well as some DIY versions of hololens.  Many refer to this as 'holograms' which I realize isn't exactly what you want but we're currently at an 'in-between' stage of VR and AR.  (You're ahead of the curve, technologically.)  

A critical look at HoloLens and the future of Windows Mixed Reality (ads everywhere)
Former Microsoft HoloLens man: It's NOT about gaming
How To Make Your Own Hologram-Projecting Glasses
Cardboard Hololens  (conceptual, but with a 3D printer and some time you could make one that doesn't look so... bulky.)  
Building a DIY AR Device For Under $30 (Using refraction and reflection to your advantage.)

The last thing I wanted to mention again is that I am no expert here.  There may exist a tech which overcomes this hurdle but if there is I am not aware of it.  I read Reddit, Slashdot.org, and CGPress frequently and I don't recall seeing any of them advertising such a magical tech yet.  

EDIT:  You could walk around it in virtual space currently.  But the user would have to trust there are no real world objects to interfere.  

I am pointing you to some sites to expand on information. Although those sites aren't part of Autodesk, this post may have information that could help you. Please use best practices to safeguard your systems if you decide to adopt any of the suggestions on these sites.

Best Regards,

[KurtNeuburger]

Most of that is true. However, triggers (more commonly called markers) are not necessary in many cases anymore. Like with HoloLens (and several other headsets), no markers are needed, and there are other ways of going about locating items without markers too (like geolocation).

However, I think this thread has been spinning it's wheels for a while here. The short answer is, yes you can do what you want to do, and the best first step would be to go explore the great interweb to find the solution that works best for you.

[papaf1]

This is all good info for a jump start to research. Thank you Alfred and Kurt for your willingness to help with your experience and knowledge. The main purpose in this thread was to see if there was anything out there to do what I wanted, or at least to get enough info for a jump start. Thanks again. We can now stop spinning.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

I hope it helped @papaf1, sounds to me like you have some cool ideas to implement.  I hope to see what you come up with when it's all said and done.    

Best Regards,

[dan.stine]

We have been using Fuzor to push large Revit models to the HoloLens. I wrote this blog post about that: https://bimchapters.blogspot.com/2019/03/microsoft-hololens-on-lhb-urban-street.html

Architecture, Bridge, Civil and Pipline projects all from Revit models to the HoloLens via Fuzor. Some of the Revit models have surfaces generated from Civil 3D, pipes from CadWorks (AutoCAD DWG data) and Rhino models.